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Normal map seam problem + artefacts in xnormal

  • marnamai
  • April 22, 2014 at 3:13 PM
  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 3:13 PM
    • #1

    I have a problem with a rather ugly seam on my normal map, I am using 3ds max, mudbox and xnormal.


    workflow

    1 ) made the low poly in 3ds max (editable poly)

    2 ) unwrapped it

    3 ) exported as .obj from 3ds max

    4 ) imported lowpoly .obj into mudbox

    5 ) sculpted highpoly based on low poly

    6 ) exported highpoly as .obj from mudbox

    7 ) baked the normal in xnormal using the low and highpoly .obj's (has some artifacts, no idea how to fix it)

    8 ) applied normal map in material in 3ds max

    normal map seam (all channels normal)

    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/normal%20map%20seam.jpg]


    normal map red and green flipped

    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/red_green%20flipped.jpg]


    wire on normal map

    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/wire%2Bnormal.jpg]

    checkers

    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/checkers.jpg]

  • paranoidMonkey
    • April 22, 2014 at 3:27 PM
    • #2

    Are your seams "hard edges" (on a different smoothing group)? They must be.

    For the other artifacts try using cages while baking with xnormal.

  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 3:30 PM
    • #3

    the entire mesh is on a single smoothing group

    How do I use a cage in xnormal?

  • paranoidMonkey
    • April 22, 2014 at 3:43 PM
    • #4

    Everywhere there is a seam should be a "hard edge/split edge" or smoothing group. Try using a different smoothing group for each UV island and bake it.

    You can use cages in the 3d view of xnormal. At the top would be a box with "View cage" and when you click on it should appear another "Edit cage" and a slider so you can extrude/scale the cage.

    The cage should encompass the entire Highpoly model. Then save cages and bake.


    Another thing, not related to your baking problems, you should optimize the uv space a little more imho.


    EDIT: Don't forget to use the option "include smoothing groups" while exporting you models.

  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 4:59 PM
    • #5

    Thanks, the cage fixed the artifacts, but damn... xnormal is one cluncky piece of software ...


    The seams are still there. :/


    I added an extra edit poly modifier above my unwrap modifier in the stack and I assigned each island a different smoothing group, so no groups touch eachother with the same smoothing group (body = 1, legs = 2 should each island be unique as, in each leg their own unique group instead of all legs in smoothing group 2?), exported it to .obj. and rebaked it, but the issue still exists.


    Isn't there an easy way to select the uv islands via the uvw modifier and assign smoothing groups there?

  • Pampers
    • April 22, 2014 at 5:04 PM
    • #6

    view the model in something else than 3ds max, the normalmap is most likely fine

  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 5:19 PM
    • #7

    I applied a single smoothing group again after the bake, applied the normal map in a the diffuse slot and even there it is visible


    what else can I view it in?


    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/Screenshot%202014-04-22%2018.17.10.png]

  • paranoidMonkey
    • April 22, 2014 at 5:21 PM
    • #8

    Well I'm not a max user, I'm not able to answer software related questions, sorry.

    But I think the 3ds max render uses +X -Y +Z so you have to invert the normal map's green channel in photoshop or bake it that way in xnormal and that should work.

    Otherwise, try Marmoset Toolbag, it's a pretty cool tool for game model preview and render.

  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 5:26 PM
    • #9

    I 'll try marmoset toolbag


    but I am pretty sure the green channel isn't the issue.


    Here is it flipped


    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/Screenshot%202014-04-22%2018.25.45.png]

  • paranoidMonkey
    • April 22, 2014 at 5:35 PM
    • #10

    Did you tried that with the different smoothing groups bake?

  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 6:04 PM
    • #11

    yes, it shows that seam in every bake I did so far, even with the channels flipped

  • AyzOn
    • April 22, 2014 at 6:13 PM
    • #12

    Do you use any kind of edge splitting on these parts? (I dont know how it works in Max, I dont use it.)

    You might join these parts then and bake it again, that shouldnt give shading issues as these parts are pretty smooth.

    I hope that makes sense for you.^^

  • paranoidMonkey
    • April 22, 2014 at 6:17 PM
    • #13

    marnamai: meh..

    Well another thing I noticed is that you're not using edge padding. Try baking it with at least 6 or 8 pixels.

  • Minos
    • April 22, 2014 at 6:25 PM
    • #14

    Just a heads up, normal map display is broken in max 2013+ so NEVER use it to preview normal maps. Here's the reason why: http://www.laurenscorijn.com/future-xoliulshader-support.html


    I'd recommend using either Marmoset or some game engine to preview it

  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 6:34 PM
    • #15

    @ ayzon: I am not sure what you mean, but the model is a single mesh
    @ paranoidMonkey: I had my edge padding at 2 pixels the screenshot is scaled down and it's hardly noticable, I 'll keep in mind to use more padding in the future

    @ Minos: I really hope that this is the case, it's been driving me crazy and causing a headache for 2 days allready ...

    But does it explain the seam when the normal is applied as a diffuse?

    I 'll update once I get it to work in marmoset.


    EDIT: baked an object space normal (shows no seams) converted it with handplane to a normal tangent map (shows seams)

  • Minos
    • April 22, 2014 at 8:44 PM
    • #16

    If all else fails, you can try using 3d-coat to fix the seams by hand. Sometimes it's easier to fix something by hand (which will literally take like 5 minutes) than spending days looking for a solution

  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 9:28 PM
    • #17

    Some progress!


    seems like its a problem with how the tangent is read


    somehow it work in marmoset toolbag set to 3ds max's way of reading the tangent normal but not with the one from xnormal (which was used to bake the map)

    Guess I shouldn't worry about the seam, but just to make sure to use the right tangent for each software


    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/Screenshot%202014-04-22%2022.24.09.png]

    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/Screenshot%202014-04-22%2022.19.58.png]

  • Pampers
    • April 22, 2014 at 11:09 PM
    • #18

    you know you can flip the channel when baking in xnormal as well?

  • marnamai
    • April 22, 2014 at 11:27 PM
    • #19

    didn't know that, how? if I can render them at x +, y - and z + they should be correct for the cryengine


    edit, found it, in the map to render the 3dots behind the normal map checkbox thingie

  • marnamai
    • April 23, 2014 at 3:41 PM
    • #20

    hmm, guess there is still something wrong after all ... rendered in xnormal x+ y- z+ , which should be correct for the cryengine, flipping green makes it even worse


    [Blocked Image: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16324432/horse%20normal%20seam/ingame%20seam%20visible.png]

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