De_forlorn WIP

    Greetings

    I present to you my new bomb/defuse project, de_forlorn which is still in early WIP stage.

    I started it 3 weeks ago and the map currently consists mostly of flat backbone brushwork and placeholder items to test the layout which is being done over the past week with some friends over LAN.

    The map is thematically inspired by Half-Life and Opposing Force for some old-school deserted base/facility gameplay and atmosphere.

    It has a new layout geared towards fast competitve gameplay with plenty of strategies to use; it has also new areas in addition to some reworked areas from 3 of my old maps (that follow the same theme of an abandoned base similar to Black Mesa facility):


    op4_haste (2001) - Opposing Force, lonedm (2003) - Half-Life and de_derelict_base (2011) - Counter-Strike Source.

    The map features fast rotation times/routes on floor level as well as on catwalk/upper floor level (14-15 sec for A-B). It also has corridor action suitable for SMGs and shotguns, outdoor space for some rifle action, sniper nests with exposed back for some reward/risk gameplay decisions, vertical gameplay for some interesting strategies, viability of grenades bouncing on corridor walls and around corners, player readability against walls, easily identifiable wallbangs (metal doors and catwalks) and an alternance of cold blue-ish/warm yellow-ish lights to enhance readability.

    I kept the fog, color correction and post processing to bare minimum to avoid hindering gameplay and visibility.

    The player models will be anarchists (black) vs FBI (green) for easier identification which also fit well with the backstory of an anarchist group raiding a recently abandoned base to blast open some secure doors and loot available hazardous content.

    Free time is a bit of an issue these days but i'm trying my best to keep a steady rate of work/progress on this map.

    Thanks for reading and I hope to have a playable/testable version very soon.

    I wish everyone a Happy Easter.

    Will2k

    CT spawn

    Bombsite A

    Bombsite B

    T spawn

    Middle

    T-A tunnels

    Quote from Marcos

    Really like the clean oldschool look here! Reminds me of the old de_prodigy. Do you have the layout done?


    Thank you Marcos


    I was greatly influenced by classic maps such as "lambda bunker" and "boot camp" ever since I played them some 14 years ago and I'm trying to keep more or less the same old school visual style.


    As for the layout, I'm still tweaking some bits and pieces and I'll definitely upload an overview in this thread very soon; stay tuned.


    Thanks again for your comment.


    Quote from Squad

    Got an overview of the layout to show?


    Squad, thanks for the support mate


    The overview will be added very soon and a playable version will follow shortly; I'll keep you posted on steam

    Here's a temp overview of the map.


    Temp radar overview


    Please note the map in its alpha1 version is scheduled for a playtest on mapcore server on Thursday, May 8 (Thanks RZL).


    Thanks in advance to everyone who joins the playtest

    Greetings


    Please take note that the map is scheduled for playtest tonight on the mapcore server at 9:00 PM GMT+1 (actually GMT+2 since it's summer daylight saving time)


    At this early alpha stage, I'm mainly looking to see how the map plays to make sure the layout is solid and address any suggestions/complaints that may arise before moving to detailing and further art passes.


    However, if anyone has feedback/suggestions related to other aspects of the map, feel free to voice them out. I'm open to all suggestions/inspiration sources and all feedback is good


    Thanks in advance to everyone who shows up tonight or gives feedback afterwards as well as to everyone who will playtest the map on their own time and come up with suggestions.


    Thanks


    Will2k


    EDIT: Your first impressions might be that the map is a bit on the big side but once you play a couple of rounds, you'll quickly find it very easy and logical to follow the layout .

    I would like to thank everyone who joined the playtest yesterday; feedback was appreciated


    After this first playtest, my to-do list for alpha2 is as follows:


    - move mid tunnel further to the right towards A so CT on catwalk don't have an unfair direct line of sight on T coming from this tunnel (CT can see T feet when still in tunnel)

    - move the vent in B next to metal door so CT cannot cover it easily with the main entrance (coming from T spawn)

    - Possibility of removing the window at B. If i keep it, it will be enlarged to further expose the defender behind and allow for more flash/grenades tactics through the window.

    - Add some more cover in parking lot (near the 2 rusted cars to eliminate chances of CT rushing from B shooting any trailing T still going to A in the back)

    - Enlarge all windows to allow bigger space for peeking and grenades lobbing.


    If anyone from the playtesters has further feedback/suggestion, please post it here in this thread. All feedback is welcome


    Thanks again for your time and hope to get alpha2 version very soon for a second playtest.


    Hope everyone enjoyed the map


    Will2k

    darn, was planing to attend to the playtest, but the gf wanted to get mussles for dinner, after a few screwdrivers I forgot the time

    Quote from mr.P

    darn, was planing to attend to the playtest, but the gf wanted to get mussles for dinner, after a few screwdrivers I forgot the time

    gf=priority


    Haven't seen you for a while on Steam, how have you been mate?


    Once I have alpha2 ready, I'll pass you a copy to test

    Quote from will2k

    gf=priority


    Haven't seen you for a while on Steam, how have you been mate?


    Once I have alpha2 ready, I'll pass you a copy to test


    been good mate, soon time to crunch away on my latest map, just want to get it done


    ...sounds good, cant wait to try it!

    Just my opinion but like the others said, the windows and high ground advantage is way too favorable for CT's, especially since flashes/smokes/incendiaries aren't helpful to combat that advantage.


    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/UxHDTgO.jpg]

    The 2 orange-circled routes seemed unnecessary (balcony route to CT spawn, small hallway connector outside T spawn); I don't think any players ever used them and it convoluted the layout (just lurking positions).


    All of my feedback's just a matter of preference but i think that entire upper catwalk area running through the map is a large part of the imbalance issue; 1. good CT mobility, 2. lots of map control for CT's, 3. inaccessible to T's.


    Both upper areas of the bombsites need some nerfing (and/or give T's better positioning for the routes)

    Also, IMO A bomb site should be more isolated, especially with all the strong positions for bomb-defenders and open distance you have to traverse to get to the site.


    Thanks for the feedback kinggambit and thanks for being at the playtest.


    The 2 areas you circled are in fact flagged on my dev sheet as "to be removed" from 2 weeks ago . Those 2 areas were kept from my old maps (op4_haste and cs_derelict base) as alternate passages but proved to be unused during the early playtests. I kept them however till the mapcore test to confirm how a full server with human players will react to their presence. Obviously, the "to be removed" flag is valid and they will go in alpha2.


    As for the catwalk, I believe it is an integral part of the strategies used in the map but as the playtest showed, it favors CTs and empowers them with strategic locations not instantly availabe to Ts. I don't think I will remove it completely; I think I will further develop point n°3 in your reasoning (inaccessible to T's) and find ways to make the catwalk accessible to T as soon as they reach mid without the need to reach bombsites and rotate back to catwalk.


    Thanks again for the helpful thoughts and feedback, appreciate it


    Stick around for alpha2 playtest soon

    Upon request I'm gonna repost the feedback I posted in the Playtesting 4.0 topic here. Forgot about this topic, should have post here the first time


    de_forlorn


    will2k, I mentioned most, if not all, of these suggestions to you already, but just for future reference and debate I'll post them here as well


    [Blocked Image: http://users.telenet.be/gus/forlorn_overview_feedback.jpg]


    - blue: windows

    - red: sightlines

    - ugly yellow: changed paths


    - Ts have a disadvantage going to mid through the parking lot, mainly because of two reasons: 1) CTs have height advantage (at catwalk) resulting in this case that they can see the legs of Ts coming through before Ts are able to see CTs at all and 2) CTs can just keep Ts entrance covered from the room leading to the upper catwalk (only exposing their heads if positioned well), without actually having to get onto the catwalk where they would expose themselves fully in a narrow space.


    To solve this both entrances shouldn't be directly opposite each other. This way, CTs would have to at least get out on the catwalk to have the advantage of spotting Ts before they can be seen themselves. This would be better, but probably not ideal still. The tunnel leading Ts to mid should probably be opened up vertically to give Ts a fair chance. Another thing worth thinking about would be to make the catwalk floor some sort of grate (which you can shoot through), so getting on the catwalk will get you a lot more exposed and vulnerable. There may be more changes needed to balance out mid, but it would definately be a step in the right direction


    - B is hard to take for Ts. If they take the shortest route they have two entry points, but both are facing the same small window where CTs can defend from (and one entry point is a narrow duct).


    To balance things out a bit, these entry points shouldn't be right next to each other. The CT window should either be removed, moved or made a lot larger, so CTs can't cover the tunnel when only exposing their heads.


    - There's a pretty long sightline (the long red line on the overview) from one of the windows (blue) at the lower side of the overview. If CTs rush through B they can easily shoot Ts who are trying to get into A in the back.


    I guess that's it in a nutshell

    It's great that the layout offers both close/mid-range and mid/long-range. I like the height variations in the map, some of them are rather big, giving an advantage to one team, but nothing that can't be fixed in my opinion!

    Overall, I like the layout. Testing was fun!


    And I'm looking forward to what you're gonna do with the Black Mesa theme

    Quote from kinggambit

    The 2 orange-circled routes seemed unnecessary (balcony route to CT spawn, small hallway connector outside T spawn); I don't think any players ever used them and it convoluted the layout (just lurking positions).


    I don't necessarily agree with the balcony route to CT spawn. I used it once or a few times to rotate back to A after the bomb was planted there. It's a quick way to get to the rounded hallway connecting CT spawn and A bombsite. Dropping down there does make you lose a few HP points, so if you choose to keep the balcony after all, there should be something down there to break your fall.


    Other than that, I agree with all your points

    Quote from Squad

    I don't necessarily agree with the balcony route to CT spawn. I used it once or a few times to rotate back to A after the bomb was planted there. It's a quick way to get to the rounded hallway connecting CT spawn and A bombsite. Dropping down there does make you lose a few HP points, so if you choose to keep the balcony after all, there should be something down there to break your fall.


    Other than that, I agree with all your points


    The balcony had originally a cargo container + 2 crates underneath it to make jumping easier (you could even climb from CT spawn into balcony) but I removed them prior to the test in the last version. If the balcony stays, then I guess I have to reinstate those props in their place.

    Sorry for the lack of updates, I haven't been able to work on the map for the past 2 weeks; way too busy these days and I'm barely on Steam.


    However, I caught a break yesterday evening and was able to work out most of the updates that were added on the to-do list after the 1st playtest.


    I still have to implement 2 new major layout changes that I came up with to improve gameflow for Ts. Should be able to work on these on Saturday.


    Hopefully, we will have alpha2 version very soon for a mapcore playtest.


    Stay tuned

    forlorn_alpha2 is ready


    the map is scheduled for a mapcore test tomorrow tuesday May 27 at 9:00 pm GMT+1 (+2 for summer daylight time). Thanks to RZL for his support


    Many changes happened in alpha2 taking care of all issues that were reported in alpha1 playtest on the core. I also added couple of new changes to better streamline gameplay.


    Here's the changelog:


    - Moved mid tunnel further to the right towards A so CT on catwalk don't have an unfair direct line of sight on T coming from this tunnel.

    - Moved the vent in B next to metal door so CT cannot cover it easily with the main entrance (coming from T spawn).

    - Added/improved cover spots in bombsite A, B and middle.

    - Enlarged the window in B as well as made the wall half broken to further expose the defender behind and allow for more flash/grenades tactics through the window, and to allow a path from window room into lower B.

    - Added some more cover in parking lot (near the 2 rusted cars) to eliminate chances of CT rushing from B shooting any trailing T still going to A in the back.

    - Enlarged all windows to allow bigger space for peeking and grenades lobbing. Players behind these windows are now exposed from the waist up.

    - Removed corridor-connector between T and car park.

    - Added crates in CT spawn to soften the balcony jump.


    New additions:

    - Added new route from T-upper car park to mid via catwalk to balance CT on the other catwalk side and allow early catwalk access for T.

    - Added new stair in T-A tunnels leading to new catwalk opposite the current one in A and allowing T to have early catwalk access in A.

    - Fixed some visual glitches in circular twisted tunnel between CT-A

    - Added more lights in strategical spots to enhance player readability.


    Hope to see you all tomorrow in the playtest. thanks in advance

    Thanks to everyone who joined the playtest today. although the number of players was low, the game was pretty tight.


    Sorry I had to join spectators, but as in playtest 1, my ping was 120 and jumping higher causing me to see players shuffling and ghosting (my internet sucks )


    This time the game was more balanced with the match ending in the last round after a 7-7 tie.


    Hopefully everyone enjoyed the game and don't forget to leave any feedback/comments you have in this thread.


    Thanks again.

    I received additional gameplay feedback from Volcano and work on beta1 should start soon.


    I have also started creating the custom textures and I plan to have color specific textures to help separate and make each area easily identifiable.

    different colors to visually separate CT/T areas


    and I have been replaying some Opposing Force for some inspiration. The nostalgia is very high


    Op4 - crash site

    You might want to avoid repainting valve textures like that, specifically because of how compressed they'll get once you recompress them. You're essentially compressing an already compressed texture.

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