Retirement + Working overseas

Pretty sure that those money are yours regardless of where you are in the world

Quote from Brander_Rly

Hi guys, since many of you have worked in different countries, making this question to you seems appropriate:

If you work in a country for some years, you will retire some day. But is very common CG artists work, for example, 5 years at crytek frankfurt, 10 years at Pixar and 5 years at Valve

So, there is a chance, any law, to sum the years you worked at different countries to gain the benefit of retirement? Or, if you move to another country the most reasonable option is to make a private retirement plan?

Thanks.

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This depends entirely on your nationality. If I moved to Germany and started working there, I would still need to tax to Norway. But some countries forces you to (also) tax to them.

That being said, saving money is always a good idea, and saving money in a private retirement fund sounds like a good idea.

This is a topic that is on my mind a lot recently i know the rules are very different from country to country.

In Germany in order to get any kind of retirement money you must have paid in for at least 5 years (and the amount is going to be tiny naturally) other countries are probably different.

If you worked in many countries most likely scenario is that you will get a small retirement amount from all of them rather than one large (or lets call it what it is "PATHETIC" ) amount from one country.

In some countries I know you can "cash out" when you leave and get all your retirement moneys back right away. I did that in Denmark. Because I didn't want to deal with the danish authorities who use a language i don't understand when i am an old fuck.

What I am way more worried about is that this shit will "reset" in many places do to revolutions policy changes new laws. I find it impossible to plan anything for my retirement beyond the obvious fact that people who OWN REAL-ESTATE ARE ALWAYS BETTER OF than those who don't.

Who knows if in 30-40 years money, medical supplies, food, drinkable water and breathable air are still the commodities/concepts we have today. I am gonna say NO its gonna be weird and different in unexpected/unpredictable ways.

Depends on your country mate, you could take a private retirement fund, or if you rely on your country retirement plan, see if there is a way to still pay for it by working overseas. Because "rebuying" the working years if you miss some, will probably cost you much more.

I know that for the year i worked in england (i'm from france), i didn't took the private pension plan of the company nor i paid anything in france since i was working in england and paying english taxes.

But after i knew there was a way to still pay the public pension plan we have in france by working overseas, but you have to subscribe to it. So just get informed mate.

Same with public medical care, after one year in england i didn't exist anymore in france and can't get my medication refund. So i have to get back into the system again; plan your return too actually.

It's the video game industry after all, i heard about some french people in canada who were laid off from one day to the other (because they can there) had 3 month to find a job, didn't found it, and then had to go back into their home country. If you have no family to get you back on your feet there, it's pretty much an acrobatic flight without a net. So think about that too.

For me it happened to be the family issues that were the most complicated ;p

afaik the 401(k) in the US allows you to cash out when you leave the country if you work there for say 15 years but want to move back to europe.

its a weird topic and its been crossing my mind as well for quite some time. I mistrust mosts private pension plans as I've had some friends who got screwed over by this already in the past.

like warby said, real-estate might be the only somewhat reliable care plan, but then again it requires you too be long enough in one country to purchase a building or apartment there and plan ahead enough to pay down credit on it. you also need someone to take care of it (and potential tenants) while you're abroad or in a different city. Its definitely a huge burden (but still most likely the one that actually pays off, no matter the economic situation in your country at the time of your retirement).

Also real estate is fairly vulnerable to bubbles (which happen every so and so years) as well as gentrification

I don't think retirement will really exist in the future except for the very old. I think the vast majority will have to work more years than they do now.

It's funny, i looked over what i had

Basically in france it works by trimesters, and you need around 160 trimesters of work to get a full retirement pension. (which will probably rise in the future anyway)

So far after 4 years of tumultuous game dev, between internship, unemployement, temporary contracts, full time job, studio closing, work oversea and the like. I made 11 trimesters.

And if i continue on that rhythm : (160 /11) * 4 = 58 years

28 + 58, i should get my full retirement pension at 86 years of age! ... mhhh hardly there

Nobody really know what will happen for game developers in the future actually, since even the oldest aren't retired yet.

I guess since it will be the future, i'll get me some fancy robotic arms or something to continue to translate and rotate crates with distinction and style. But until then, any ideas of reconversion guys ?

Quote from KoKo5oVaR

... i'll get me some fancy robotic arms or something to continue to translate and rotate crates with distinction and style.

THIS

Quote from Pericolos0

You're not going to be crunching with the young guys at age 65, I can tell you that

Oh right, are you 65?

at 78 you are modeling a new wheelchair you can't afford, during lunchbreaks

You're eligible to retirement money from wherever you paid into the system. Just gotta make sure you archive all your paperwork so you don't have trouble to prove your claims 30-40 years down the line. I still get a letter from the Swedish retirement fund every year for example. I guess it will be a bit of a pain in the ass to sort out everything if you worked in a lot of different countries.

I also pay into a private fund btw. because i started relatively late to work regularely and have some catching up to do if i don't want to die in poverty.

You know you're getting old when you start thinking about saving for retirement... a pretty big leap from modding and mapping on your bedroom in your parents place, lmao.

Srsly tho... I need to create a 401k and start saving, the years go by fast!

I guess we can also hope we're gonna be the next notch and make millions or be part of the next Call of Duty and get 100k bonuses!

I'm laughing but this is actually pretty grim.

The older game developers (45 years max) still there that i know don't look so much happy of their conditions. Because when these guys just need stability, the lucrative private school market is pouring out more and more fresh game devs each year who are anxious to start to finally work into videogames no matter what.

It's ofcourse encouraged by companies because youngsters are cheaper, overly ambitious, productive, sacrificial and obviously more up to date than the older game devs who don't have the time to work each evening and weekend on a 3d scene because of their family work and also cannot move from place to place each year.

Because yes, it's all fun to change job each year, move to another country see the world when you are young, i actually quite enjoyed the little i did. But recently i've been literally hit in the face by time, i'm 28 and my parents are getting old enough, (78 and 77 years old now) they are starting to need help and since i'm their only child, i can hardly be at the other side of the planet unwrapping uvs (well i could, but this is just too sad). Add on that my girlfriend suffers from the repetitive moves and the distance with her family, she is clearly starting to hate my job which force her doing it. So i'm kind of forced to look for a job in France, which lost more than half of it's employment offers in 3 years. Pretty quickly actually, because money is running out. So it's been really really complicated lately. Stress, smokes, coffees, I think i'm actually even doing high blood pressure because of it all.

So working in a game dev company at 65 with all the burden of earth on the shoulders ? Jesus christ. No. I would die before of a heart failure. I would be better in a cheap country side house selling my tomatoes

edit : but maybe that would be easier for us because we won't live the same huge change of skills? Between 8 bits pixel art and zbrush; but who knows what will be game tech in 30 years

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Seriously, don't stress out Kokoz, there are things you can't change anyway and you just gotta learn to accept that. When you do, you don't get that much stressed anymore. This is not a carte blanche for giving up in that sense, because you can still push yourself hard enough-- BUT it helps to alleviate the stress.

About getting old/money/everything, my plan is definitely to invest in some way, most likely something fairly stable in the beginning but once I get a little bit in I'd like to get into investments more. I like the idea of maxing out a 401k before beginning investments, that sounds like a pretty well guarded move. But honestly I don't believe it's going to be as hopeless or grim as people put it here. It's the future, it's not like we're going to go back to living in industrial age conditions or on the streets. Play smart, or if you can't play it smart, play it safe.and it'll be fine.

Also I will lol so hard if WW3 hits and we all die while we're all busy working our asses off for the future.

Quote from KoKo5oVaR

Nobody really know what will happen for game developers in the future actually, since even the oldest aren't retired yet.

Our Sound Director went into retirement last year or the year before. We had a big celebration (kind of) because he was the first employee ever to hit the 67 years.

One big difference is also that you can retire in different countries at completely different ages. Its currently a huge discussion point in the european union that germans work till 67 in france till 62 and in malta even 60. so if you work all your life in france, but you are german - which system applies to you?

(oh and Arkane is currently looking for artists in lyon - maybe you can give it a shot there? )

That's probably why there is so much retired british people buying properties in the french country side e-freak (and it didn't worked out unfortunately cheers mate )

Quote from Sentura

Seriously, don't stress out Kokoz, there are things you can't change anyway and you just gotta learn to accept that. When you do, you don't get that much stressed anymore.

Such buddhism, very peace of mind, low stress, wow;

I don't want to sound pessimistic at all, let's be this clear, if we can continue game dev to age 65 and still have fun and manage it, it's all good; it's a matter of subjectivity in the end. It's just at the present moment, personally there is things like family and health i feel i won't be able to sacrifice on the altar of videogames, plus i don't feel good enough for the overloaded french market. So most probably i won't have the choice.

Don't nod just closed today actually laying off everyone (remember me), rumour is quanticdream is in a pretty grim situation, and that makes as much as super good 3d guys out there against who i will need to fight for a job, even if i don't have anything against these guys. Makes me feel it's not what i liked about making maps when i started 14 years ago.

It's very hard to judge where we will be at 65 in the end, and it depends on each person. So i don't want to chop a general case really.

No matter what I think you have to always remember what your driving force is, in whatever work you do. I chose to do level design, but I would probably also have had a strong drive for other things, such as quantum physics or maybe even teaching (or all of these combined). Passion, as much as it is a rationalization for wanting pussy (thanks Dejavo), is also fairly abstract and the more you look, the more you'll find that there are things you really enjoy doing.

Either way, I don't plan to retire early for two reasons:

The first one is that I won't see myself as old at 65 or whenever. I'm not saying there won't be a day where you are too tired or weak to work, but I don't think that will happen at 65... or 75 for that matter. The matter of perspective becomes important - because when you see yourself as weak and frail you will act weak and frail. I don't intend to lose much steam by the age of 65 or 75, I just plan to keep going as much as I can. More than anything, retirement just seems like an excuse to stop and wait for death to come. I'd rather march on and meet death head first.

The second reason is simple: If I stopped doing anything I would literally bore myself to death. I don't think most people can do idleness, and I would personally and most likely wind up doing the exact same things during my retirement as I would otherwise. If I truly become too tired and weak to do anything at any point in time I might as well not be alive, because it wouldn't be a life worth living.