[HL2:EP2] Station 51 Sequel (Station 52?) - Looking for Feedback

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    Now released! I added a thread over in Works Released:

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    ModDB profile: http://www.moddb.com/mods/station-51

    Drop feedback in here, send me a PM, or email me at: [email protected]

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    I have a single player map for Half-Life 2: Episode 2 in the early stages, and figured I'd start posting some progress pics.

    It's a sequel to Station 51, picking up where that one left off. The plan is to package them together and release them as a stand alone with a good 45-60 minutes of gameplay.

    I've already gotten some good feedback (thanks borgking!)

    Here's a current overview:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/yYZsKAr.jpg]

    Here's an (older) overview shot:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/G5xpv4S.jpg]

    Quote from JeanPaul

    Dude just slap a env_light in there to make it at least bearable

    NO, you must suffer as I have!

    (Sorry, I've become immune to fullbright. I can drop one in and upload a new version this evening if that would get more people to test.)

    Ha, just kidding. I tried it, and the compile locked up after 20 minutes. Needs lots of optimization and boxing in the level, and I don't think I'm at that stage yet.

    So I've got it at a point where it's ready for testing!

    Not an official release at this point, would prefer some feedback before I release it to the masses.

    It's a full mod with installer.

    Also added a ModDB profile for it: http://www.moddb.com/mods/station-51

    Let me know what you think, or if you run into any issues.

    I'm afraid you probably won't be too happy with it Sentura, since there weren't super major changes to the first half. But I'd love to know what you think about the new level that makes up the second half. You've been the only person I've heard that feedback from, but that probably makes it more valid, actually.

    I do try to integrate breaks, but it is very combat heavy. I again didn't really do puzzles, and I understand the place those has in Half-Life 2 - they give the player a break and prevent combat from being a grind. But I didn't have any puzzles I really wanted to incorporate, nothing that jumped out at me that would be fun and not derivative of what's already been done puzzle-wise. It's weird, but re-reading your feedback a year later, I do feel like I understand what you mean a little better, and I don't really have purely exploratory spaces. I think I'm a little afraid exploratory sections would feel empty, but I think they would help a lot.

    And the narrative that's there is very subtle (see: nonexistent , and I don't really build up to anything. There isn't a climax. And I think it took putting together something that actually ends to see that.

    I'm going to do a post-mortem of sorts, but the original design was more pockets of action, where the player could drive the airboat through canals and pick and choose their battles, with more of an open world feel. But it felt like I was putting a lot of effort into areas that most players wouldn't even see if they took the shortest path. Those are the areas I love in games.

    What would be awesome would be a demo or video of your first playthrough of the second level, so I can see through your eyes and get a better handle on what you're seeing and where I could improve.

    Quote from OhSnap

    I'm not Sentura, but I have emerged from my Cave of Lurkdom to do a playtest vid as you requested.. Cheers.

    Damn, that was humbling. That did not look or sound like fun, at all. Thank you for sticking with it and putting yourself through that, I feel like I pulled a lot out of it.

    [*]Enemies are dog piling in everywhere, but especially at the ruins and the Combine base entrance. I need to stagger those, badly, and probably have less enemies in general.
    [*]Not enough cover - notably in the Combine base, in the gunship battle and leading up to it.
    [*]Enemy entrances aren't telegraphed nearly enough, or happen not in front of the player, leading to some nasty surprises where you felt jumped, and they did look cheap. Need to make sure the player is looking where I want them to.
    [*]You, and I'm guessing a lot of players, don't like to drop down, at least not the distances I'm asking for. I need to ease the player down after the first bridge, show them it's safe to come down. Same for the Hunter battle arena, the roof in the warehouse, and in the Combine base. I'm just trying to figure out how I'll prevent backtracking in those areas.
    [*]The sawteeth were on purpose, to avoid backtracking.
    [*]Lots of areas were really dark. Ambient light probably needs to be cranked up, and more lights in general.
    [*]Noted on player feedback on damaging the tank - the big flaming chunks shooting out of it are supposed to show it's damaged, but some breakables up there, maybe some barrels, would probably feel better, as you said.
    [*]What happens there at the tank is that the door explodes open - you couldn't go that way until the tank exploding blows it open. I didn't make this clear enough, I need to make sure the door explodes and leaves chunks/debris.
    [*]The weird fence gap was added so you could grab crates and items you left behind in the other areas - without it, you would be able to see crates you missed but not get them. I get that it looks weird, I probably should have tried for a better solution there.
    [*]I'm not sure what else I can be doing to lead the player along, short of having a voice over that says "Hey, you need to go this way." What would you do to make sure the player's moving the right way?
    [*]People do not like to run into spaces they don't know. I need to make sure the player gets to explore the combat spaces first. This is probably related to making sure the player's well within the combat space before they can see enemies, so you don't run into situations like the Combine base interior, where you just hang back on high spaces. I knew this one, I just needed to see it in action.
    [*]I guess that door in the sewers needs a massive flashing light and louder opening sound, because you completely missed it at first.
    [*]Again, in that area where you didn't know where to go, the enemies were misleading, I should have them come from the way you came. I didn't know backtracking was such a taboo, I really didn't expect the frustration there. Were the enemies that much of a false flag?
    [*]Sorry, the breaking floor and crates above the zombies was cheap.
    [*]I like the "give the player more enemies when he's powerful" bit with the rocket launcher, that makes a lot of sense.
    [*]Shitty edges in warehouse office noted, those do need railings and a different trim texture.
    [*]I think I need to place more weapon pickups. Most of those crates have the contents auto-generated, and I don't think that's cutting it. I need manually placed ammo for the more powerful weapons.
    [*]That whole Combine base made me cringe. I flooded way too enemies into that space. More staggering, and just less of them.
    [*]Number of grenades are controllable, I need to tone that down from the defaults.
    [*]More physics objects, ammo, and health. Noted.
    [/list]There's enough actionable stuff I feel like I need to go back and fix it, at least for a patch.

    I wish I'd had that feedback a week ago! Again, thank you for taking the time, I really do appreciate it. I feel "solid" is generous praise considering what you had to go through.

    Yeah sorry, I had actually downloaded it on the 7th when you released it for playtesting, but then it took me awhile to actually play it. And then you 'released' it a day later... so.. I dunno.

    A few clarifications on your points;

    8. This is just a case of getting the key, before you even reach the locked door, metaphorically... I didn't know the hallway was blocked, so I didn't know the truck opened it up.

    9. Understood, regarding the fences. I believe chain link fences behave this way, but are models (not sure if your fences were models or brushes). It wasn't a huge issue for me, just something that popped at me.

    12. I saw the door open, but like point 8, this was a case of opening the locked door, before I encountered it.

    13. Important point. I'm fine with backtracking. As long as I know I'm supposed to. The enemies mislead me to the direction I was supposed to go. The general "I'm going X direction because its the ONLY direction available" is also causing this frustration. I didn't know I was on a mission to unlock a door, I just stumbled upon it. If, instead, I reach a locked door, and branch off in another direction to open that door, then I'll know what my actions resulted in, and would be perfectly fine with backtracking to the door that I know I unlocked. (eg. elevator at start of Ep2. You reach the elevator, oh it has no power. Follow power lines to turn on power. Backtrack to the elevator. Ok it's a really small distance that you backtrack, but the principle is the same)

    14. I was referring to the fall damage I took, as being cheap. Basically, you punished me for jumping to the platform, instead of using the gravity gun. What if a player beelines for that crate? Then they're punished twice by missing out on the other crate and grenades on the upper walkway. Personally, I'd put a warning of some sort. Shake, debris, dust, some vertical struts that break. Let me know I'm about to fall (even if it's just a 1 or 2 second warning), don't just thrust it on me. Because if I have a warning, its MY fault I fell. If there's no warning, its YOUR fault I fell.

    10. Saved this one for last, because it's most important to me. There's MANY different ways to lead the player through a space. Lighting, audio, movement, enemies, props, etc. Play through HL2 and ask yourself every 5 minutes "why am I going in this direction" and you'll find multitudes of reasons. Ep1 is an easy example. Through the first 70% of the game, you're heading towards the citadel. It's a key landmark in (almost) every map that you're heading toward.

    The release was a little rushed, it's a case of sitting on it for so long that I just felt like getting it out there. I needed to wait a little longer for feedback.

    You're absolutely right on leading the player, and I do use those tools, but I didn't use them everywhere, which was a mistake. I do try to give the player an end goal with the looming Combine base, and little things like the Combine dude coming out of the rolling doors after the gunship is shot down with a short siren, but I neglected to signpost/breadcrumb all the smaller objectives in between. I need to be more diligent with these.

    But even when I did have those things - like with the button to open the slow gate that you disliked - I had a sign hinting it was a gate override, it had a big red light on it, and it even had a brushwork wire leading back to the gate. That didn't seem to be enough in that case. I even had some crates visible through the gate, so the player thinks that can probably get to them. What can prevent those sorts of situations?

    And for 8, the key before the door bit also makes sense. I think I might try replacing the opaque door with a shield wall linked up to and powered by the tank, so it's more obvious that it's an option for proceeding and link destruction of the tank more clearly to opening the path.

    Also, if anyone is interested, I have a postmortem of sorts posted over on ModDB: http://www.moddb.com/mods/station-5…and-walkthrough It was made before I got OhSnap's playthrough, but it covers the how and why of many of the decisions I made.

    The first gate (before the missile truck) was entirely my bad. I thought I pressed the use key, but I might have reloaded or just moved forward instead.. I rewatched the video and I didn't hear the 'buzz' sound when you 'use' an illegitimate thing, so I'm guessing one of those. That was why I went hunting around for some secondary way to open the gate. I'm guessing most people will be able to hit their use key right, and get through there with no trouble... I'm special.

    If I'm wrong, and it really is an issue with people not finding the gate controls, you could throw in some sparking wires, change the button to the orange wheel, or use those wire plugs that you have to plug in correctly before the gate will open (super minor puzzle element there too...). You could also have something jamming the gate to prevent it from being lifted, like a barrel or wood, that, when dislodged, the gate opens. If the gate is 'jumping' while jammed, it would be a good attention pull, and as long as its well lit, dislodging debris from something is fairly intuitive. You could also have the gate start open, and it drops when the character gets close (hinting that the combine is actively blocking you, instead of just throwing bodies at you). There's a lot of ways one can draw attention to a door they need to open =)

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