warbys quick time event rant

Interesting read. I like QTEs when they are used to create a rhythm, like some dance moves or whatevs, and when they are not obnoxious, and God of War is a perfect example of that in my opinion. I don't love this game nor the whole franchise (I think they're cool games but not exactly my kind of stuff), but God of War is the only game where I saw most of the QTEs used the good way.

On the other hand, QTEs like "Smash repeatedly your E key to open that fucking door", "Press your E key to take a piss" or "Press E to instantly kill your opponent and the other guys around him will never see a thing" annoy me greatly. Most of the time these are forced, the latter example has more to do with "Takedowns" (boy do I hate those) than QTEs per se, but I like to put them in the same bag.

TLWRL (too long, will read later)

"Asuras Wrath" would like to have a word with you. MASH B UNTIL YOUR FINGER DISINTEGRATE.

I don’t know if I agree with your reasons for liking Quick Time Events. They are rarely (never?) used to add interactivity to story cutscenes, and instead for interactions that could be handled through actual gameplay like “boss dies” or “Chris punches rock.” QTE’s are predominately feel like a band-aid fix for when people notice the main character is cooler in cutscenes than in the actual game. This can be improved in many ways better than a Simon Says sequence.

I think the point of letting players initate QTE’s (unless it’s blatantly obvious) is a good one. Bayonetta was really bad for this despite doing almost everything else right. I remember I lost a Platinum rating on one section because the bridge I was on collapsed and I instinctively jumped to save myself. What I was supposed to do was let the bridge collapse enough that a QTE prompt came up to press jump and do a bespoke jump that makes me not die. No please. Actually the "hidden QTE" of pressing the corresponding button colour each time you saw a lollipop in a cutscene was probably more fun than the real QTE's.

Quote from Minos

TLWRL (too long, will read later)

+1 lmao

Gonna go and blanket statement this and say they're all bad and have never been good. Older games get a bit of a pass but that's it. Every game would be the same or better without them. Just because they're tolerable when implemented in a non frustrating way doesn't validate them in the slightest.

They don't ruin games but they're definitely high on the who gives a fuck about this shit, seriously, list. I'd rather they just let the cinematic play out.

Quote from Warby

game-designers/writers(creative-)directors would be severely limited in the kind of storys they could tell if everything had to be accommodated with just the core mechanics or a none interactive cut-scene. qtes are a great "catch all" device that theoretically could turn anything none interactive into something that the player participates in.

why limp dick it when you can do something interesting with the game. What you described is just a cheap fall back because holy shit look at the size of our script there's no way we're making any of this interactive. Keeping things within the context of the games design is hard when you keep trying to put shit in that it totally doesn't support. If something can't play out with the players existing toolset it''s probably a good hint to stop thinking about what you're thinking about doing.

- Don't finish your game with a stupid QTE!!! Can be epic for a big boss or a Wow moment, like Uncharted 3, a long long combat and at the end you are happy to finish it. But a big NO for a stupid QTE like LMB to prone, RMB to prone, Z to go forward and Space to jump.

*ahem* Crysis 2 *ahem*

i especially liked max payne 3's 1-2 qte's, they were very well integrated into the gameplay. lol jk

I know warby hates uppercase or anything that makes him type more, and I think its a bit painful to read huge texts that doesn't use uppercase and this was a really interesting read so I FTFY.

Quote from Warby

Okay i played some of the God of War games again recently. For those of you who don't know me personally let me just say i fucking LOVE those games:

And then somewhere, I think it was on "extra credits", someone blamed the GoW games for making quick time events popular and by implication held it against God of War.

Just for history sake i am going to point out here that i think it was actually the Shenmu games that introduced them(and coined the term) and resident evil 4 that made it popular but it doesn't really matter who is to blame.

[Blocked Image: http://www.goodcowfilms.com/farm/basement/ga-archive/us-shenmue-box-art_09-26-00_files/shenmue_box.jpg]

Now, I understand that everyone, (most of the time including me) hates qtes, but I think there are some simple rules one as a designer could follow that will make them not suck and I am going to attempt to list those rules below.

And before you ask "Why bother?" and that "Designers should just get rid of them all together". Let me say that i think that video games at their heart are about interactivity. The one major "feature" that games have over movies, music, books, comics and tv-shows as entertainment is the involvement of the audience. The more we can bring the player in to participate the better. Usually story telling happens during completely none interactive cut-scenes as we all know, which in my eyes is diametrically opposed to what games are - or should be.

So the more narrative we can shizzle away from the none-interactive side of games and bring it to the "verb"-driven player controlled side the better. Game-designers/Writers/(Creative-)Directors would be severely limited in the kind of stories they could tell if everything had to be accommodated with just the core mechanics or a none-interactive cut-scene. Qtes are a great "catch all" device that theoretically could turn anything none interactive into something that the player participates in. Lets not forget right here that Qtes don't necessarily have to be used for a giant Michael Bay-esque set pieces where somebody jumps from an exploding roof top to a helicopter. Something slow and subtle could also be a qte. For example the Deus Ex HR dialog bosses are essentially qtes (although clearly not reaction based, I really think we need a better name for qtes. One that doesn't involve the word QUICK).

Now that we have established my intent, lets get on to the meet an potatoes:

DO:

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  [*:49thx0at]Arrange your prompts of buttons in screen-space based on where they are on the controller. (I have seen so many people stumble over issues like: "where is the yellow Y button on the xbox controller ?" or "that reddish-purple square button looks exactly like the reddish-orange circle button on the play-station controller in peripheral view"). God of War 3 did this right. Triangle button always appeared on top of the screen and the cross button always at the bottom. Even if you were completely unfamiliar with the controller layout you could do those qtes. Plus it let you keep the eye on the action.
  [*:49thx0at]When using analog sticks, utilize a motion that resembles the motion performed on screen as close as possible. Heavy Rain did this to great success and a much higher degree of immersion was the reward.
  [*:49thx0at]If there is some kind of overlap between the animation that plays and your core mechanics use the same buttons! Example; If in your qte, two characters are fighting, use the punch button for the attack prompts and the dodge button for whenever the protagonist evades. This lets people anticipate the action even before the prompt appears. When kratos jumps from the shoulder of a titan to his face and I didn't have to press x(the jump button) it feels like a missed opportunity. If you cant pull it of with your core mechanics tech wise than at least FAKE it properly.
  [*:49thx0at]Always have a checkpoint auto save after a qte. The none or less-interactive parts of a game are always the ones you least want to repeat.
  [*:49thx0at]Setting the game difficulty to easy should increase the time window for the button presses or slow down the entire qte altogether.

DONT:

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  [*:49thx0at]Randomize the button prompts unless there is actually a different animation/action following because for one it directly contradicts the idea that the button you press has something to do with the action you perform(anti-immersion)and it doesn't allow people who repeat play the game to become "better" at the game call me old school but i still think that experience is something that exists in the players brain and is not an "integer" variable stored in a save-game people need to be able to master their games.
  [*:49thx0at]Force quick time events on players always let them choose when to start them. the god of war games are pretty good at this but they also occasionally "jump" you which is less cool.
  [*:49thx0at]Have a long none interactive sequence and than 1 quick-time event in the end that can fuck you up the longer nothing happens the saver players feel to put the controller down. qtes you either are all in or all out. sooner or later i hope games will become " fully interactive " and than this issue will solve itself never to return.
  [*:49thx0at]Force people to button mash! I am an old man by now it seems. My joints hurt all the time. Normal game-play is okay but button mash qtes can hurt like hell. Usually game designers are so caring making sure its always red vs blue (not red vs green for the color blind people) but people with aching joints like me seem to get no love from the game industry. Another dis-benefit of the button mash prompts is that they cant be followed by regular prompts. I see people all the time failing qtes because they don't realize the mash phase is over and a regular prompt appeared and was immediately failed because people were still mashing.
  [*:49thx0at]Use qtes for stuff that can easily be done with the normal mechanics. Example: In Call Of Duty Black Ops, in the rocket launch pad mission, there is a moment where you walk up to a soldier(as a qte !) and melee kill him (also as a qte). Last time i checked walking and melee killing dudes where things that players in call of duty games can do at all times. NO NEED FOR QTE!
  [*:49thx0at]Instant kill the players for failing a qte ever.

feel free to add more

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  [*:49thx0at]Setting the game difficulty to easy should remove parts of the qte's as well as make them slower so you have more time to react.
  [*:49thx0at]If you use qte's in your game you must use the all the time. Its a game mechanic and you need to teach the player that your game uses them and keep reminding the player that you are using them. Surprising the player with a qte after 3 hours of game play is a bad idea. BF3 and Crysis 2 are two example games that are horrible at this. You basically run around the entire time shooting stuff and then when the camera is taken from you and you sit back to enjoy the view (Both games look gorgeous) you are suddenly surprised to see the quick time event which you of course fail and it leads to certain death. Not cool.