Subjects/Studies that help with Level Design/ Env art

    oh no you're 20 and your life is over... I'm 21 so I must be really fucked.

    You did a solid job on that cave-thingy and you seem like a pretty crafty guy. I wouldn't worry one bit, just keep improving man. Don't know your current work situation but try to find the time where you can and try to stay motivated. Try to find projects/idea that interest you, that'll help a lot. I tried to make a L4D2-map during the six month hiatus I just had and, to quote Guillermo del Toro, it was like "fucking without a boner". Don't recommend it!

    It's good that you've joined us here anyway mate, we're always behind you

    Quote from Puddy

    oh no you're 20 and your life is over... I'm 21 so I must be really fucked.You did a solid job on that cave-thingy and you seem like a pretty crafty guy. I wouldn't worry one bit, just keep improving man. Don't know your current work situation but try to find the time where you can and try to stay motivated. Try to find projects/idea that interest you, that'll help a lot. I tried to make a L4D2-map during the six month hiatus I just had and, to quote Guillermo del Toro, it was like "fucking without a boner". Don't recommend it!

    It's good that you've joined us here anyway mate, we're always behind you

    Haha I loved that podcast

    Great interview between two (out of a handful) of my favorite creative minds out there at the moment.

    Basically game art courses boil down to two facts:

    1) Most course teachers usually really suck, unless they only come in for one or two courses and spend the rest of the time in the actual industry.

    2) Most students usually really suck, because they have been told that this would be the right thing to do with a World of Warcraft Addiction and an over proportional amount of time spend on drawing Manga figures but can't be bothered to learn a 3D software or the basics of Object Orientation unless some one is babysitting them through it.

    I'm a student and a lecturer right now (and trying to break the above pattern for both), as I'm writing my thesis from february on but I left uni 20 months ago because it didn't help me get anywhere. I went back to it because you need a degree (or years of experience and a good lawyer) to get out of europe (visas and work permits). Now I'm doing one day a week as a student and half a day as a lecturer and spend the rest in the company or with the team of (former) students that formed a small indie-team.

    It pisses me off how much bullshit some of the professors are talking about stuff that they never experienced in the industry. At the same time I see enough students that will quit a course because they realise they'd have to invest time outside the lectures into it or get their technical issues sorted out by them selves to be able to follow the courses' speed.

    My lesson on the entire thing: Use the university as an environment where you can do your own projects and get a degree for it. If a professor or lecturer knows his stuff, consult him and try to avoid the rest of them. Get some motivated people on your team (not even the most talented but those who are willing to learn and invest time) and then get the degree done as fast as possible.

    Last but not least, the best meme on the internet:

    http://gameartstudentbullfrog.tumblr.com/

    Reading this post i'm getting relieved, don't get me wrong, but i hate my uni. I'm there becouse i wanted to learn smth new, but it is impossible, and even on top of that i already have a degree in computer-scienece, i have only one semeser left, so i just want to finish it. But reading this post i see that this is common problem where uni's want to learn how to make games (and 90% of the teachers don't have any pro experience) this is sad

    I have another year left once this one is done and I really can't wait till its behind me. I do try to get really inspired about the assignments but they try to make thing too academic rather than design something from the ground up for a new industry. You can now learn more than most uni's will cover in a year in about 2-5 hours from the likes of 3d motive or Eat 3D.

    Like e-freak said I want it so I can hopefully go to the states or Canada to work some time, it does sound like they are a must for that kind of thing.

    Quote from sarge mat

    I have another year left once this one is done and I really can't wait till its behind me. I do try to get really inspired about the assignments but they try to make thing too academic rather than design something from the ground up for a new industry. You can now learn more than most uni's will cover in a year in about 2-5 hours from the likes of 3d motive or Eat 3D.Like e-freak said I want it so I can hopefully go to the states or Canada to work some time, it does sound like they are a must for that kind of thing.

    I think it's really helping me "survive" uni by taking subjects that can be relateable to game/level/evniornment design, but not be about them. That way I can still be inspired by what I do for school, but at the same time I don't feel like I can't learn anything - because I learn stuff all the time in my classes! And being mostly "self-taught" as far as level design skill goes, if I feel like something is lacking in that area it's purely my fault and not a teacher's fault or a waste of my money

    I studied architecture in college, and still look over books for inspiration. They're always very helpful for designing spaces and understanding our connection to them. Some books that have the building plans are especially helpful. I'm still fascinated by what humans around the world are capable of building in the real world.

    Quote from e-freak

    Basically game art courses boil down to two facts:1) Most course teachers usually really suck, unless they only come in for one or two courses and spend the rest of the time in the actual industry.

    2) Most students usually really suck, because they have been told that this would be the right thing to do with a World of Warcraft Addiction and an over proportional amount of time spend on drawing Manga figures but can't be bothered to learn a 3D software or the basics of Object Orientation unless some one is babysitting them through it.

    Hahaha this describes my school exactly, only going here to get a degree on my papers. Only one semester left!

    Quote from choppp

    I studied architecture in college, and still look over books for inspiration. They're always very helpful for designing spaces and understanding our connection to them. Some books that have the building plans are especially helpful. I'm still fascinated by what humans around the world are capable of building in the real world.

    Yeah this is good advice Although more the artistic and historical elements rather than engineering parts. Also, just being an active member of Mapcore (or a few other big level design communities) for a few years is a huge plus, you'd be amazed

    My path into industry was practising after school and weekends, then from 16-18 years old I worked a 4 day a week job at a hardware store and spent the spare days (mainly nights) modding but ultimately practising. After about 6 years of doing it as a hobby I got my first professional job Only in the final year as an amateur did I purposely aim at being a professional, when I was quite confident with my abilities. I think that's a big problem today in that most people want results simply too fast. Of cource a few are very talented and with the right advice can get there very quickly, it's not everyone though

    agreed, so many teachers have nothing good to say, and some even harbor resentment towards the industry. i do believe that there are more theoretical things that need to be made/discovered/created for games, but right now around 90% of it is bullshit. but i'm thinking it's a phase, and that over time more people will get a more balanced view on both the industry and academia of games, that there is somehow a way that includes both. the games industry is still young, and the game academia is even younger, so it'll probably be a few score of years before anything happens to bind them together.

    Quote from 2d-chris

    I think that's a big problem today in that most people want results simply too fast. Of cource a few are very talented and with the right advice can get there very quickly, it's not everyone though

    this is a very valid point. there was this guy who wrote that 10000 hours of work in a single field would make you an expert in that field. i think it's spot on basically. degrees may earn you merits and possibly connections, but in order to get skills you just need to work. hard.

    Quote from 2d-chris

    Yeah this is good advice Although more the artistic and historical elements rather than engineering parts. Also, just being an active member of Mapcore (or a few other big level design communities) for a few years is a huge plus, you'd be amazed

    My path into industry was practising after school and weekends, then from 16-18 years old I worked a 4 day a week job at a hardware store and spent the spare days (mainly nights) modding but ultimately practising. After about 6 years of doing it as a hobby I got my first professional job Only in the final year as an amateur did I purposely aim at being a professional, when I was quite confident with my abilities. I think that's a big problem today in that most people want results simply too fast. Of cource a few are very talented and with the right advice can get there very quickly, it's not everyone though

    I could agree with that, I was modding games for about 7-8 years before i even thought of design as a career choice.

    Check out http://%7boption%7d. I'm trying to collect as much useful publications as possible, maybe you'll find something useful there.

    As for the modding community - this is still the best source of knowledge so don't even think about starting with education without proper skills in UDK or Sandbox.

    I can understand people want results too fast. My problem is looking at other peoples incredible work who are employed and finding out they are younger than me or have been doing it for less time than me. I think I made many mistakes in my first few years, getting stuck in a 'remake' mod for years, then leaving that with nothing to actually show as nothing was original work. From there I had decent working knowledge of the source engine and Hammer editor, but had nothing to show for it when I started looking for new mods to join.

    Bah, if only I could go back in time !

    Quote from RedYager

    I can understand people want results too fast. My problem is looking at other peoples incredible work who are employed and finding out they are younger than me or have been doing it for less time than me. I think I made many mistakes in my first few years, getting stuck in a 'remake' mod for years, then leaving that with nothing to actually show as nothing was original work. From there I had decent working knowledge of the source engine and Hammer editor, but had nothing to show for it when I started looking for new mods to join. Bah, if only I could go back in time !

    I feel the same thing some times. I had soooo much spare time during high school and I didn't really touch mapping. Wasn't sure I'd go for game development as a career. I made a shitty TF2 map during the last term - that's it. Really could of used that time to improve my skills (or... gain skills at all rather).

    Thing is, you'll feel horrible in five years if you don't pull yourself together NOW and get back on track The important thing is to learn that the past can't be undone and you should look at how to do things moving forward. Also, consider that Mapcore has a lot of talented people. For every success story here, there's atleast ten uninspired slackers who study game design and are going nowhere.

    If I remember correctly I worked on about 5 mods for years at a time that didn't go anywhere, or are just being released now D: It really doesnt take that long or much effort to make a CS:S map in-between modding - as a backup plan and something to work on when the project slows down, they always do and sometimes for years

    learn from your time modding and make something awesome, SP is going to help you allot too, MP is a bit of a tricky one to get hired from although perfectly possible. Doing both as a hobby is perfect IMO

    Most levels I've made have been Mulitplayer. Often its hard to even think of something to create a level for because although I enjoy video games and creating levels for them, I don't actually play a large variety of them. The most enjoyable level design project I've done was a map for Red Orchestra Ostfront. I love the history of ww2, and so have a love for the video games. The map took about 4 months to complete, and I did it properly that time, playtested loads before moving on. Half the development time was me researching the actual battle, studying maps, gathering accounts of the battle. I even had a dude translating German for me, it was brilliant!

    Quote from 2d-chris

    Yeah this is good advice Although more the artistic and historical elements rather than engineering parts. Also, just being an active member of Mapcore (or a few other big level design communities) for a few years is a huge plus, you'd be amazed

    My path into industry was practising after school and weekends, then from 16-18 years old I worked a 4 day a week job at a hardware store and spent the spare days (mainly nights) modding but ultimately practising. After about 6 years of doing it as a hobby I got my first professional job Only in the final year as an amateur did I purposely aim at being a professional, when I was quite confident with my abilities. I think that's a big problem today in that most people want results simply too fast. Of cource a few are very talented and with the right advice can get there very quickly, it's not everyone though

    Correct! the historical and artistic elements are what matter most to a level designer / artist. But as you say, getting better comes solely from practice. Someone could research level design all they want, but what it comes down to is getting your hands dirty and constantly building up to a goal. To add to your comment about early expectations - it's important for new designers to actually complete a project whether its good or bad. The results are never going to be pretty the first time, but the bridge has to be complete before you could move across the gap and grow.

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