THE CUBE CHALLENGE: Rules and discussion

I think that with the community these days being less and less focused on a single engine it would be a mistake to narrow down the entries to just one. I can understand the desire to keep some consistency so as to level the playing field and make it fair to compare and judge the entries, but I don't really think in the last contest we were hindered by the multiple engines used, and I don't think we will be here. The higher the turnout the better surely, and opening up to multiple engines can only help on this front.

How about we just make a rule that states engine choice has to be cleared with KFS prior to the contest kicking off, and we can then come to a consensus on what the comparable limitation on scale should be for that engine. We then lock down the engines available and list them in the rules along with the size restriction, so anyone entering after the start date has to choose from the list.

im with reno

the reason why i'd love to have this in just one engine would be to have playtests etc. i would definitely put game flow and play above art and a "looking good" level. we're not making scenes, because in that case we might as well not bother with the 1024^3 requirement.

Quote from Sentura

the reason why i'd love to have this in just one engine would be to have playtests etc. i would definitely put game flow and play above art and a "looking good" level. we're not making scenes, because in that case we might as well not bother with the 1024^3 requirement.

i agree entirely. But unfortunately without a judging panel like the leveldesign.nl one it aint gunna happen, I dont think anyone bothered to play the levels in the last contest.

It's a very valid point. I tried to play all the levels from the last contest before I placed my votes but I'd wager I was the only one who did, and I don't blame anyone for that as it's a helluva big task to undertake and eats up a lot of time. Even if they're all in one engine/game it's a big ask if we get another 19 or so entries, though admittedly a few more people would probably be inclined to do it.

I think it comes down to more than *just* judging on looks and art though. You can get a fairly strong first impression of how a level plays from just a few screenshots, provided they are decently representative of the level itself. Especially when we're talking about a limited space like 1024^3. It isn't perfect, and of course you can tell much more by seeing it in game, but I think most of us will form fairly well judged opinions about a level's gameplay just by casting our eyes over some pictures. Or at least be able to spot a killbox, a boringly linear map, or a hopeless maze out from a more..."considered", layout

Short of having a dedicated judging panel as Vilham says it's an unlikely scenario that people will play everything. I think we just have to accept that people will be voting somewhat blind and try to account for it. Video capture is pretty commonplace these days - maybe encouraging videos as part of the submissions isn't such an unrealistic ask and would help people to place more educated votes?

Quote from ReNo

It's a very valid point. I tried to play all the levels from the last contest before I placed my votes but I'd wager I was the only one who did, and I don't blame anyone for that as it's a helluva big task to undertake and eats up a lot of time. Even if they're all in one engine/game it's a big ask if we get another 19 or so entries, though admittedly a few more people would probably be inclined to do it.I think it comes down to more than *just* judging on looks and art though. You can get a fairly strong first impression of how a level plays from just a few screenshots, provided they are decently representative of the level itself. Especially when we're talking about a limited space like 1024^3. It isn't perfect, and of course you can tell much more by seeing it in game, but I think most of us will form fairly well judged opinions about a level's gameplay just by casting our eyes over some pictures. Or at least be able to spot a killbox, a boringly linear map, or a hopeless maze out from a more..."considered", layout

Short of having a dedicated judging panel as Vilham says it's an unlikely scenario that people will play everything. I think we just have to accept that people will be voting somewhat blind and try to account for it. Video capture is pretty commonplace these days - maybe encouraging videos as part of the submissions isn't such an unrealistic ask and would help people to place more educated votes?

Upload quick video of the map being played maybe? Might work best for the Door Puzzle challenge I suppose.

i remember the last 1024^3 contest we had. while there was a bunch of controversy about the judging and everything, there was a good many of us that went out and tried out the maps, on an official server. i think this should be established again, for a better outcome.

Hmm, sounds cool. I'm not so sure about the constraints/engine choices/restrictions topic. It would be nice to have a choice of engines as this could bring more participants but then it makes it hard to judge, and makes the rules more complex. Needless complexity hurts. From a personal standpoint, I am comfortable enough with Source, Unreal, CryEngine, and the idTech stuff to be happy with it being restricted to any of those alone.

I'm getting the strong desire to pick up something idTech powered again. Its been a long time..

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, i have an awesome unreal map idea

On a second thought confining the contest only to 2-3 games such as HL2DM, UT3, L4D2 etc would be better. This contest heavily relies on gameplay so it is IMHO important to establish some common map-testing base in order to avoid some bad situations as " Oh you made a map for RoboBlitz... I don't have that game". Just keep it down to 2-3 popular games and the contest will be much better off. My $0.02.

I vote for 1 game (and as such hl2 dm), because then we can play all the maps together after the contest has ended without having to purchase all kinds of games

Not familiar enough with Source or HL2DM to participate. Have fun guys.

No worries. I set a strict deadline on the project I'm working on and it requires almost all of my free time anyways. Probably wouldn't have had time to make anything halfway decent for the contest.

well it was kind of a given that we'd lose people partial to only one engine if we followed this approach. the problem is that there really is no better way of actually valuing gameplay efficiently, and thus making the contest constraint actually do anything.

if anything, i can only encourage people to pick up on source to try this out. it isn't about winning, it's about participating.

I would have zero issue with a single game IF everyone that voted had to play them first, but i don't see how we can enforce that.

Quote from Sentura

it isn't about winning, it's about participating.

yep, thats why i am going to try this in cod radiant, should be fun to work with this constrains

maybe thrik could pull some strings in the phpbb code to make the poll need a password or some similar effect.

Quote from Serenius

Not familiar enough with Source or HL2DM to participate. Have fun guys.

The same. :\