Half Life 2...more tunnels?

    We all know how good Half Life was, at least that it sold a lot and got all those awards blah blah.

    But we also know that Half-Life forced you down a particular path akin to a tunnel like in Doom or the Quake games, Medal of Honor, Halo (sort of), Max Payne, Call of Duty, etc.

    So for a great single player first person shooter, whether PC, PS2, Xbox, or GC, does it need to take you down a particular path? Even if a game seems like it's not linear like Halo might be or Call of Duty, they are still very linear games even if you don't notice. STALKER has some big open levels, but the game isn't out yet so don't think about that. (Also, this is not in regards to STALKER anyway.)

    Is linearity of objetives and methods of completing objectives necc. to tell a good narative story?

    Can a single player first person shooter (with a story) have non-linear levels?

    -by non-linear levels I mean you have multiple ways of completing an objective, and the levels themselves are "open" in that you can go almost anywhere for longer distances than you can in typical FPS levels.

    So leave your thoughts... answer the poll, damn it!

    maybe its just me but i cant stand to have a nonlinear path. like a hallway with 5 doors and each door branches off to a different part. i have to go thru every one and see whats there and i hate it. i guess i prefer when games dont SEEM linear but they ARE

    Quote from OL

    maybe its just me but i cant stand to have a nonlinear path. like a hallway with 5 doors and each door branches off to a different part. i have to go thru every one and see whats there and i hate it. i guess i prefer when games dont SEEM linear but they ARE

    Good point. Expanding on that...what about a more open terrain level? You start in one spot, end in another and have have 4 major objectives to complete. The terrain is big and "open" like in Battlefield, but there are interesting buildings and interiors to enter like in Half Life. Can you make a highly scripted story driven experience even if the player can go all over the place?

    Maybe the question is not that clear and this is a crappy poll, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this topic anyway.

    Thanks

    i think its more about being tricked into thinking a game isnt linear. for example: in cod in the first demo where they say "go flank them" i was like "yea fuck that" i ran out and killed all of them and half way through i got "mission objective failed game over" thats the kind of gay shit i dislike. one example that comes to mind is morrowwind, since it seems like you have so many options and all of them dictate the outcome, but thats only works sometimes because you dont want to be in the situation where you end the game and say "wow if i just would have done 1 thing different i could have had a different and better experience". the 1 thing i never want to feel after i beat a game is regret.

    btw another good seemingly non linear game that i beat was shenmue. it wasnt as much about having options to dictate where the player ends up, as it was about every once and a while straying from the story line (arcades, mini games, jobs).

    [i typed this while being up over 48 hours, so none of it prob makes any sense]

    linear games arent NECCESSARY because i see my friend playing console games all the time and talking about the different endings and stuff and i think thats cool, i love the different ways you can play a game to have a different ending but the problem is i cant stand not knowing what could happen, so hl2 is linear, i know i did everything i could have and i know the ending, if hl2 is not linear then id ALWAYS wonder what i could have done differently and want to see all the different ways to play it...now you can say thats good for a game becuase its getting more playtime, but when it takes as long as it did to finish hl, i think linear is best

    Most games are linear, First Person Shooters never, ever have decent stories anyway (evil government, experiment goes wrong covers Doom and Half-life) but they have a progression through the areas so you don't end up swamped with bigass monsters or visit a demon dimension before some obligatory sewer level. Doing 5 things in one area before moving on is still linear, just a better version of linear that isn't so in your face. Overly 'free' games have no plot, they have little balancing game wise and only GTA has done it right - and even that has linear mission sequences to gradually unlock new sections when you're strong enough and to advance the 'story.'

    The most non-linear games out are probably those highly American AD&D games with a million gay fucking elves like Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights, the biggest downfall is there's so daunting and have little to no plot throughout the course of the game, instead, when you get to certain 'progress' points it hurls as much story at you as it can and every NPC will talk to you for 5 hours about the upcoming prophesied Apocalypse. LAME. This is mainly done to make people use the editor to make their own campaigns, but only the small ones are any good, the others bore you to death or see you get swamped by 50,000 Dragons because you took an incorrect turn or were 'curious' to where that portal went. And MMORPGs don't even have progress points, you'll just here 500 pages of history from anyone you talk to, that's the entire depth of the game.

    DD: You're not an asshole, you're just a misguided fool trying to take after some of the more successful assholes and it isn't working in the slightest because you have no idea when to apply your asshole persona.

    I was wondering, what is the oldest thread on this forum? In 2003 i made my first e-mail, i did not even knew what a forum is. ?. This is like a time capsule.

    Quote from Izuno

    On 11/6/2003 at 4:30 AM, Izuno said: Can a single player first person shooter (with a story) have non-linear levels?

    -by non-linear levels I mean you have multiple ways of completing an objective, and the levels themselves are "open" in that you can go almost anywhere for longer distances than you can in typical FPS levels.

    Oh boi

    Man that was 16ish years ago. If I recall...we were working on a new shooter game concept where the developer and the senior management on the publishing side were in a screaming match about "what makes a good FPS singeplayer campaign" and they kept talking about Medal of Honor games (recall...this was in 2003). Basically one side was "WE HAVE TO COPY TEH MOHs CAUSE LOOK 'EM SALES" and the other side was "WE NEVER MADE A SHOOTER GAME BEFORE CAN YOU CHILL A MOMENT SO WE CAN PLAN?" and the insults started flying.

    Given I was stuck in the middle of all these people I came to mapcore to chat with smarter-er people who were more pro at level design than me to get perspective. Ah...good times back then.

    Would be awesome if we could somehow bring back games that try to mix both worlds? Like Far Cry 1? I remember loving how large the environments were, but they still had a flow to them.

    Even Crysis 1, everyone remembers it as this wide open world game, but the levels were still "linear" in it's design, they were just wider "corridors".

    Imagine having a very small 'open world' space that slightly changes in layout/design after each quest. The smaller space makes this a lot more manageable, and insures that each change is noticed and makes an impact on the player.

    Quote from DMU222

    2 hours ago, DMU222 said: Imagine having a very small 'open world' space that slightly changes in layout/design after each quest. The smaller space makes this a lot more manageable, and insures that each change is noticed and makes an impact on the player.

    I'm playing Ori Will of the Wisps right now, and it does this exact thing relatively well. Plus, with unlockable powers, you can go bacl to old areas and explore them further. Although, I think it's sort of the nature of the Metroidvania genre to include this to a certain extent, Ori absolutely nails it, beautiful game too.

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