Originality in mods

    I first staggered when I read "business cards", admittedly also with a bit of a smirky face, but thinking about the effort you guys put into this, going to these events to present your work, collecting feedback, making connections, I don't think that's laughable, in contrary it is respectable in my eyes! Sad to hear that it didn't work out in the end

    Quote from barrakid

    I really don't see anything we made as a deliberate "marketing strategy", it was just stuff that got into the mod naturally, and opportunities that where presented to us that we, as a small humble mod team, couldn't afford to refuse.

    "PR" strategy as you were getting publicity from editorial content, not advertisements

    Thanks for the link barrakid. That was a interesting read. We faced similar problems during the development of Insurgency. At one point (summer 2006) Insurgency was very close to share the same destiny with Nightfall. At this time we lost our domain, ftp and forums, our leader was busy with real life, development was slow, the build of the game was unplayable for months etc. Our luck was that many members worked on at least one released mod before so we had the experience on board to sort things out. But it was very close.

    I don't exactly remember this. Just too many things happend during my years on the team. But "political movements" inside the mod used to happen here and there, thats true. If you have a mod team without a strong leader this can be the downfall for the project in the worst case. But Jeremy never was a fan of too much democracy so these things usualy got dealed with even if some people had to leave the mod in anger. In the end it was necessary in order to bring the mod to success.

    All I remember about FMPONE is him "joining" the Ham and Jam team and being tasked with something to do that day, then later in the day quitting and joining Insurgency... :roll:

    Must've been all of 8 hours, possibly our shortest try out ever.

    Quote from dux

    Good to see I was more active than you two while I was around!

    Knowing gossips or taking part in failed revolutions doesn't make anyone more productive

    Quote from Ginger Lord

    All I remember about FMPONE is him "joining" the Ham and Jam team and being tasked with something to do that day, then later in the day quitting and joining Insurgency... :roll:Must've been all of 8 hours, possibly our shortest try out ever.

    He also quit INS to join ND or something like that. FMPONE was quite the mod whore lol

    fmpone was a mod hopper. don't think he ever finished anything anywhere. i remember the map he made for Insurgency was only a single room of a mosque made of 8000 or so brushes

    Quote from Steppenwolf

    fmpone was a mod hopper. don't think he ever finished anything anywhere. i remember the map he made for Insurgency was only a single room of a mosque made of 8000 or so brushes

    how'd he get accepted into the team then?

    He had a talent to create good looking "scenes" for his portfolio. I guess all mods who hired him fell for that. You can't tell from screenshots that nothing else is behind that. You will only find out later when you never get anything playable from the guy.

    Quote from KoKo5oVaR

    Is it just me, or does the mod community lacks a lot of ideas these days ?

    Personally, I think originality is overated, ideas are a dime a dozen. For me it's about how well those ideas are executed. A mod that uses simple, tried and true gameplay mechanics that are well imlpemented and fun is a fair accomplishment. Of course unique gameplay elements are great but they greatly complicate things too.

    The cool thing about modding is it's readily accesible to anyone. Of course this also results in a plethora of absolute shit as seen on modDB. 99% of them are dreamt up by kids that never see them to fruition, they are by no means an accurate litmus test for the quality of what's out there.

    Saying there is no originallity is a gross generalisation. The Source engine alone has an impressive range of original mods that impliment unique gamelpay mechanics previously unseen in the engine.

    Quote from FrieChamp

    I first staggered when I read "business cards"

    It was just a card with the mod's logo, and a link to our site. We figured it was the best way to make people remember our site URL, which was rather long and hard to memorize

    I think many wannabe modders (i.e. the kids that you guys are mentioning) focus way too much on the communication aspect modding brings (showing off your work, building up hype, winning awards) than actually working on the projects themselves. A friend of mine suggested a few years ago that we don't announce anything we work on until it's well advanced (or pretty much ready to be released): it saves time because you don't have to handle any fanbase, and if it turns out you gotta drop it for any reason, then you haven't wasted everybody's time.

    Of course, even though that's a solution that would clear out the modding community from the shitty and canceled mods, it can't really be applied in every case as it might be hard to get the most talented people to join you if you don't showcase your project, but I do think it's a good rule and I've been sticking to it for a long time, successfully.

    Quote from m8nkey

    Personally, I think originality is overated, ideas are a dime a dozen. For me it's about how well those ideas are executed. A mod that uses simple, tried and true gameplay mechanics that are well imlpemented and fun is a fair accomplishment. Of course unique gameplay elements are great but they greatly complicate things too.

    The cool thing about modding is it's readily accesible to anyone. Of course this also results in a plethora of absolute shit as seen on modDB. 99% of them are dreamt up by kids that never see them to fruition, they are by no means an accurate litmus test for the quality of what's out there.

    Saying there is no originallity is a gross generalisation. The Source engine alone has an impressive range of original mods that impliment unique gamelpay mechanics previously unseen in the engine.

    I agree, a mod like Minerva for HL2 is great and doesn't add much to the gameplay. Refining the original game gameplay is good enough in most cases. That feeling that the modding community is regressing in terms of originality is mainly that good mods tend to get lost in the mass of useless crap.

    Also, I believe the game dev industry keeps specializing, dividing what was once one job into numerous sub parts, so I feel like it's hard to keep on modding the recent engines and create original works without having to recruit dozens of talented people to cover all the grounds, and we all know it's a pain in the ass to manage large teams online, and usually leads to projects being canceled no matter how willingful the funders were. Thats why I think we see much more interesting and quality levels than mods. A single or couple of guys working on a level on their own have much more chances to get it done, at the price of originality and custom assets.

    BTW, I hate these mods that take a game and try to recreate it in another engine. It's even more annoying when they come up with quality work (for a while at least), and I can't help but think they should have come up with a new concept instead.

    Regarding where mods go wrong:

    The main lessons I learned from FF were fairly simple. We/I made a lot of mistakes along the way and, in hindsight, a lot of things look really obvious. Given that the vast majority of us never made a mod before and the sheer amount of stuff we had to make, I think we did well to release at all. Anyway, here we go:

    Keep your team as small as possible for as long as possible

    There are numerous reasons for this. Firstly, keeping the team small keeps expectations low. Things remain friendly and it tends to foster an attitude of "we're in this together". If you're working on something with a handful of friends or dedicated workers (who will likely wecome good friends!) then you feel inclined to pull for the team that little bit more. When FF was just starting, I felt guilty if I let the side down because there were maybe 5-10 people tops who were depending on me, nearly all of whom were working very hard themselves. I'd say we made much more progress (at least in terms of productivity per person) in the early days when our team was a tight unit. There wasn't much in the way of politics at that time, and things were much simpler to manage.

    The more people you have working on a mod, the more people you have to manage. As more and more people join, you tend to have to add further levels of indirection. Most leaders cannot hope to keep tabs on 40 people or understand the ins and outs of every discipline. Furthermore, if someone joins and finds that they're 1/40th of an unpaid mod team, they may be less inclined to go all out. This is especially the case if that person can look around and see that 20 people out of those 40 don't seem to be doing anything. Unless a modder is a very self-driven and conscientious worker, they will feel demotivated by being a cog in a huge, messy machine. Creating something is meant to be gratifying, not galling. This is particularly important if a person's work has dependencies. If Jim works 15 hours a week on the mod and finishes all of his work, but requires Iain and Bill to put in a combined 10 hours to complete the feature they're all working on, Jim is going to be severely fucking demotivated if Iain and Bill consistently fail to hold up their end of the bargain. Like I said, if it's a small team then this is less likely to happen. If it's a big team, then Iain and Bill might just not give a shit. After all, Henry and Mike aren't doing anything, either!

    Don't recruit just to recruit, and always know what a new guy is to be doing

    This one follows on from the previous point. If some guy asks to join and he's good but not outstanding, but you don't need to recruit because everything is going great, then don't recruit! It can be hard to pass up a good modder, but you should be very selective if you have something good going on. If you're just starting out then fine, grab anyone you can! Once you're moving and things are going well, don't disrupt things unless you have to.

    Also, before you bring on a new person, you should always know how to get them moving immediately. By this I mean they should feel included and know what they have to do from the first moment. This could simply mean that they join the mod and immediately have IRC/forum/vent/source code/bug tracker access and some suggestions on what they ought to be doing. If you leave a new guy dangling for days or weeks, then it looks bad and makes them think you're a bunch of clowns!

    Don't expect too much, but DO remove slackers

    Modding is unpaid, so you cannot and should not expect to be able to slave-drive people. It's also carried out during people's free time -- don't expect the earth. Give people a bit of slack for getting their work done. If someone drops off for a few weeks or a month due to RL commitments and they're up front about it, that's OK. Be straight with people and expect the same in return. However, once it becomes clear that someone is unreliable and/or lazy, just remove them. DO NOT recruit someone else to take their place while keeping them on board. It just bloats the mod team and complicates things when that person tries to return to being active. In three years, I think I saw a single instance where a person came back and made a telling contribution. The rest of the time the person just did the exact same thing -- worked a little for a few weeks and then flaked out. You will obviously have to make exceptions here or there, but in general you ought to have an idea of what you're willing to tolerate and stick to it. Once someone fails to hold up their end of the bargain, just remove them. It's easier for all concerned.

    An aside: The major thing that pissed me off is people who commit to reasonable goals but then stall, lie and ultimately disappear without having the good grace to simply admit that they haven't got anything done. I never had a problem if someone came to me and said "I'm sorry but I just haven't got anything done in the last few weeks" or simply quit the mod due to time constraints. Numerous people basically fucked me around, including some people from mapcore who I had thought to be dependable, responsible adults! If FF wasn't for them and they didn't want to stay for whatever reason, that's cool. Just tell someone and then leave! It's not hard.

    Incidentally, we also had FMPONE on the team for a few weeks, but I have nothing against the guy because he actually told me he was going to leave. He was there for less than a month and did very little, said "I'm leaving" and then left. He may have been useless to us, but at least he didn't give me false hope and spend months lying to me about how much work he had put in before silently quitting. Simple communication + goodbye = best for all concerned because I then knew we needed another level designer.

    Kick problem people in double quick time

    Sometimes you ought to kick someone out. It's tough to do, but you have to (or you should). I kicked a few people out of FF and God knows a few others deserved it. I wish I had been more ruthless when I had the capacity to kick.

    You ought to kick people who:

    ... have constant personality clashes with numerous people. If someone cannot get on with their team, they are actively hurting the mod. It doesn't matter if it's work or personal issues, just remove the problem and the others will thank you for the improved atmosphere.

    ... are always acting like a drama queen. If every little problem turns into a huge deal and a 40 page flame-fest which takes hours of people's time to clean up, only for it to happen again and again then just cut your losses and remove them.

    ... are unable to work with people (by work, I'm talking about technical or artistic collaboration), whether it be through obtuseness, stubbornness or arrogance. If near enough any criticism of piece of design, art, sound, code implementation etc. leads to a slanging match with that person, then they are failures. It's OK for people to get heated now and then -- it's natural that people feel strongly about their work, but it's for the mod. If they don't want to collaborate with others, then that person ought to go make their own personal project where they are free to do so. Likewise, if someone cannot give constructive criticism, that person is a failure. Nobody likes working hard on something only for some jackass to trash their efforts. "It's shit" / "It's not what I wanted" (no elaboration) / "I don't like it" / "the last guy was much better" etc. are all totally pointless criticisms. If you have to criticise something, give the person some pointers. You can always point out some of the parts you liked, too. I ran into quite a few people who just didn't understand how to work with other people. These people included some tremendously talented folk. You're better off without them.

    In short, clashes are almost inevitable, but you ought to know when certain individuals are frequently instigating and causing problems. Remember that modding is meant to be enjoyable. When it becomes a chore to do (in your spare time, no less!) I'm sure you can think of numerous more appealing things you'd like to do instead. For instance: Playing games or joining another mod with a better atmosphere.

    The mod leader must be one of the most active people

    If you have a leader (or even the leads that so many people detest!), then those people have to be amongst the most active on the mod. Who wants to work hard if their leader(s) aren't doing the same? This is also a fundamental problem in a lot of mods -- leaders don't do anything but try to manage people. In some situations this is OK, but I personally feel that on a mod, you want to see your leaders getting their sleeves rolled up and doing something more tangible, otherwise it is always a danger that people will look upon them as "hay guyz I had an idea and you are going to do all the work! P.s. I don't know anything about anything but I am good at re-arranging chairs and writing PR emails!"

    Also, if a leader has technical know-how, then they will also have a much better idea of what is and is not possible when pitching / designing features, or just discussing progress with the team. It doesn't have to be a scary level of expertise -- just a coarse understanding of a few development areas will be beneficial.

    Show progress often

    This doesn't necessarily mean public progress, it just means showing off what has been achieved ASAP. Progress motivates! When someone sees what persons x, y and z have done in a month, they will feel good and try to work harder in my experience. Make sure that everyone -- from top to bottom -- regularly jumps in and plays the mod so that everyone is on the same page. Checking a forum for screenshots is a poor indicator of progress. Interacting with the mod itself is a much better barometer for progress.

    Forget going public until you have something to show

    FF had a slight problem in this respect as numerous TFC source mods were trying to form from a small-ish community, so we wanted to put the word out that we were up and running. Running the website, maintaining forums and feeling like we had to justify ourselves was a time sink we didn't need. It was always motivating when we put out a big media release, but they're just pretty pictures, really. I personally think mods should avoid going public and playing the PR/fan game until they've got something much more concrete than we did. If you need to put up some images or a blurb to aid in recruitment, that's certainly understandable, though. Just resist temptation to make a fully fledged website and do PR stuff because it's a distraction you do not need. We didn't lose a lot of time by doing this because we had a website guy who did near enough everything for it, but the forums were a big distraction. If you put up forums and then make big claims about this that and the other, you are making a rod for your own back IMO (and yes, we did this!)

    Also, if your mod goes public and you make a big song and dance about it, it makes you much more vulnerable if someone jumps ship and decides to fuck you. If it's a small project and nobody has heard of it, there's limited value in releasing source code or bitching to the masses about the mod. However, it's viewed as a 'big' mod with high coverage on community sites, you're a much more satisfying target for a disgruntled modder As far as I know it didn't happen to us, but I wouldn't have been surprised if someone had thought about it.

    I have more stuff to say but A: I can't remember it B: this post is overblown already!

    I think both Hourences & the INS guys have valid points, but I largely agree with Hourences.

    Quote from Corwin

    Great post! I can't agree more.

    Indeed, I'm in a mod team too and we faced a lot of problems for some of the reasons you mentioned...

    Excellent post and a great read Defrag, running a mod team doesn't sound like a dream job to me.

    Personally I think you did a great job with FF, having good quality content and actually releasing. While most

    mods have no quality and no release

    I wasn't really the leader, but I did a lot of the day to day running (resolving disputes, recruitment, discussing direction etc.) along with a few other people. As a result, I had to constantly deal with / chase up pretty much every facet of the mod. It was a pain in the arse at times, but it was worth it. I learned so much during those three years. I made mistakes that I can learn from (and hopefully not repeat in my job!) plus it is awesome creating something with other like-minded folk.

    I think the single most important thing I learned was about interactions on a team. I saw quite a few talented folk who just couldn't work as part of a team. I also learned that, from a naive perspective, the last 20% takes 80% of the time. It's a hell of a tough task to grind out the last (totally NOT fun) part of development before releasing something. I think that will stand me in good stead for when I'm in a team that is limbering up to ship a commercial game.

    Btw if anyone is reading this stuff and thinking it sounds rather negative: I also learned that some people on mods are superstars who are very nice, dedicated and very talented! They are the people who make it all worthwhile I made numerous long term friends while working on FF.

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