Where are all the Level Designers?

I can also definitely understand why some don't want to move anywhere and stay in their hometown, but life is about choices and priorities. If you want to work in the games industry, you will most likely have to move around from time to time at best, every year in the worst case scenario.

I was brought up moving around from city to city every 3 years or so, sometimes even from country to country. I know exactly what some of you are referring to here as something you (or others) do not want for their family, but on the contrary that is exactly what I would like for my family. It's all personal choices, and being a level designer or a biochemist has nothing to do with it.

On the topic of continuing on the mod scene after you've made it in the industry, I can definitely see where even the most hardcore designer will fade away from the community after a while. It takes its toll, and for every problem you encounter working on your own, you realize the games you've worked on bring a lot more to your career than anything you come up with yourself. So there really only is self motivation to keep you going, and we all know how that swings back and forth. Besides, having a balanced life overall is probably what will keep you from burning out entirely including at your job.

The 9-5 attitude is as respectable as anything else, and is commonly shared throughout all industries and all countries (that have 9-5....). At the same time, I would personally advise people that are typically looking for that kinda working hours to stay away from certain positions in the games industry, like the aforementioned producer.

Quote from Furyo

I can also definitely understand why some don't want to move anywhere and stay in their hometown, but life is about choices and priorities. If you want to work in the games industry, you will most likely have to move around from time to time at best, every year in the worst case scenario.

I was lucky to get a job on my hometown, for now... but if I had to move to another country (which will probably happen in the future anyways, its my current goal) I wouldn't think twice about it! I didn't worked my ass of all this years to say "no" to a great career opportunity.

But yes, that matter does worry me, we wont be young forever, and sooner or later we'll have to settle down. House, wife and kids.

Since a lot of industry level designers are posting in this thread, I wanted to ask a question: How many of you have a responsibility in the project to actually create art assets over creating the level geometry, sticking the art assets in and on it, and scripting it all together?

You know HP, I used to think exactly like you. "What will happen if I choose this job 10 years from now". I always was told throughout my school years that I had to choose a career path, and stick to it. Then came my business school, that basically told me that at the rate things are, I would change jobs 6-7 times during my career, as an average. I thought the French system really didn't make room for that many changes to happen, in a country where your diploma still dictates what you'll do for the rest of your life.

And then I chose to change my career path, worked my way in myself, through sweat and tears as a random loner locked away in my room in front of an often puzzling piece of software (SourceSDK) and made it happen. The only long lasting thing I got from that is that it's possible to beat the odds and the naysayers, and that in 10 years time, should I decide it's again time to move on and do something else to support the family I'm yet to have, that I will be able to do it.

The outlook I now have is that there is no longer any career whatever it is I end up doing. There is only a series of different life experiences you choose to do or not do. And only now do I understand what my teachers told me during business school, there is no longer any certainty about any career you can choose to do, so you might as well enjoy yourself and do what you like doing at the present time. Hard, unpleasing and tedious as it may be from time to time.

You'll also find that recruiters can be interested in your other job experiences and draw new responsabilities from even your hobby. A good friend of mine that lurks around Mapcore was recently bumped up in his Insurance company because of his experience with the SourceSDK. My own experience is that recruiters who show this ability increase my desire to work for said company too.

Quote from Jetsetlemming

Since a lot of industry level designers are posting in this thread, I wanted to ask a question: How many of you have a responsibility in the project to actually create art assets over creating the level geometry, sticking the art assets in and on it, and scripting it all together?

I don't create any art asset, especially since I wouldn't know how the hell to, but I work hand in hand with the level artist to make both visions fit. And I do all my scripting (and some on other maps as well). That's entirely project related though. On Rayman, it was all about gameplay and scripting, never even had to talk to the artists.

Exactly Furyo, and know your working on what you love, and for me that's what matters the most, being able to stick to a career we always envisioned doing.

Quote from Jetsetlemming

Since a lot of industry level designers are posting in this thread, I wanted to ask a question: How many of you have a responsibility in the project to actually create art assets over creating the level geometry, sticking the art assets in and on it, and scripting it all together?

I actually do them all (especially the level geometry and most of the game art, I even got to model 2 characters for the game I'm working on atm), except for scripting, I don't need to do any scripting at all, apart from changing a few .XML's and stuff.

But my case is different from probably most of the level designers of the core, that's why I don't like to call myself a "Level Designer", I'm more of a environment artist, since I'm mostly in charge of making the levels good looking, making props and textures, tweaking the lighting, etc.

I almost solely do art in most projects. I am the middle man between both sides since I am familiar with what both sides need and like to see. That is what a level designer should be imo, someone who bridges the gap and retains the overview of an environment.

Quote from Jetsetlemming

Since a lot of industry level designers are posting in this thread, I wanted to ask a question: How many of you have a responsibility in the project to actually create art assets over creating the level geometry, sticking the art assets in and on it, and scripting it all together?

What makes you think there wouldn't be as many level-designers browsing the forums "outside" this thread than inside? I can understand this question is very interesting, especially to newcomers, but this is a completely different topic we have discussed many times before in seperate threads, so please use those or post a new one. Thanks!

Lots of interesting discussions in this one thread I must say!

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We have mapcore and its cool and all but we only have maybe a couple of dozen LD's here. With all the companys out there there must be thousands of professionals alone tho. I don't get it where they come from, where they hang out on the internet etc.

It's most certainly not a level designer specific thing, on the contrary I would almost say. Most developers just simply doesn't hang out on the internet as much as we do. For the ones with a family I can totally understand that what they have of time outside work hours, they want to spend with their family. And for IOI, it' is, as Soenke says, pretty much everyone here who have wife and kids.

The gaming industry is very much a place to work while having a family. There might be some long hours around crunch, but it is usually also a very flexible place to work. And flexibility is very much you need when dealing when especially small children. Furthermore this industry is totally not reliant on how the global economy is evolving. If you have the skills, you will always be able to find a job here. Furthermore people have a tendency to play more video games in bad times due to escapism which means that your skills might be even more desired when the economy is going down.

Not browsing forums like these are in particular true for the people who did not come from the internet and were not raised there like most of us Mapcorians were. Level designers here at IOI come with some quite mixed backgrounds, mostly because almost everyone here have had at least a degree and a few jobs in the industry before landing here.

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I think level designers are very underestimated in the game design industry. Environment artists get all the credit for making the awesome-looking models/textures, the people that make the game immersive through gameplay don't get as much credit at all.

I totally do not agree with this. Everything in games is based around level design and that's also the way it should be. The graphic artists only have stuff to work on because level designers deliver mockup for them to make pretty.

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Basically, if one of them has a portfolio, he works as a level artist, not a level designer.

Again I disagree here. I might not be doing the actual art for my levels, but I am still very much the guy who works closest with the environment artist on the level. It is for a large part my design ideas, visions and fantasy which he is helping to bring to life.

I acknowledge that you can't see much of the gameplay in screenshots. You can however get to feel what kind of level this is, what emotions it brings and what the story behind this place is. A piece of architecture and the composition of it's elements is telling so much about what the level designer was thinking.

This reminds me of a somewhat controversial statement, from a more experienced level-designer than me (any of us actually). He's about 40 years old, used to work as a city planner before he got into games and got a bunch of fairly successful titles under his belt. This guy used to work crazy over time, I'm talking about work for months straight without any day off. Now he has got a "9 to 5" attitude and I asked him why, he said:

"Because it's just a game man, even if it actually turns out to be a good one, hardly anyone's going to remember it 10 years from now"

Kind of a downer isn't it, such a statement...especially when you invest so much sweat and time into a game. Does that mean he's wrong? No, I think this comment shows perfectly how a view on games development can change with experience and age. And although I got lots of respect for those people here who spend both their work- and freetime to craft virtual worlds, I advise them to also spend more time in the real world beyond the screen, just to see what else is out there. Will that make you a happier person down the road? I don't know yet, I'm currently trying to find out

I think he's wrong Frie. As you state in your post, that comment is probably more of a reflection on his own outlook on life and perhaps, given the hours you said he worked, a degree of burnout and disillusion.

I fondly remember games from the past just as strongly as I do old songs or movies. The love I have for Star Wars having watched it as a kid in the late 70's is matched to the exact same degree as the memories I have of playing Elite on the BBC model B, Dungeon Master on the Atari ST or Counter Strike for the first time. I will never forget these games and I think many other people feel the same way about games they grew up with.

In many respects I believe that the games we have made, and continue to make are if anything, more important than products of other media industries. Interactive entertainment is still very much in its infancy, and our generation are the trail blazers.

Quote from Zacker

Again I disagree here. I might not be doing the actual art for my levels, but I am still very much the guy who works closest with the environment artist on the level. It is for a large part my design ideas, visions and fantasy which he is helping to bring to life.

I acknowledge that you can't see much of the gameplay in screenshots. You can however get to feel what kind of level this is, what emotions it brings and what the story behind this place is. A piece of architecture and the composition of it's elements is telling so much about what the level designer was thinking.

Sorry I was referring to the level designers on prince of persia specifically. Two of us have websites with our work on it. All artists have their own. That's what I meant. And in a stricter definition of the job, the examples you cited (architecture, composition) can be level artist exclusive on some projects.