Where are all the Level Designers?

we're the only ones!

Actually, that same question crossed my mind not so long ago.

I guess most of them like to lay low, and maybe they don't feel very comfortable on forums or something? I have no idea...

Nevertheless, i know a handful of level designers working in the industry that don't make it a habit of browsing through forums, I guess the "dose" they get at work is more than enough, I suppose! Go figures...

You can say the same for other professions within game dev no? I mean where are all the animators.. Just to name one.

Most professionals dont participate on forums and in communities, 9-5 attitude, which is a shame imo, also for their own good of developping a broader understanding and view of their specific activity.

To my experience there are two types of pro devs: the mod/community dude(tte), and the "I accidently rolled into this job and didn't knew there was such thing as a community and I don't know how a forum works" dude(tte).

My point being, we got into this industry through modding, so it is logical for us to be very involved online and on forums, that is not the case for those who got into the industry through other ways.

There is also a lot of older devs that dont have habit of interwebz browsing, just doing their job.

Basically like CGTalk for level-designers?

That would be really awesome, but good luck trying.

Another problem with level designer stuff is that the industry has no clue what a level designer is, you got dozens of different types of lds... It is more difficult to find common ground for all of them like this.

Just look at the division between the three big historic groups of LDs: Unreal/Quake/HL. There is absolutely no interaction between the groups.

I think it also basically comes down to whether the work of a level designer is thought of as worth sharing. Level artists share their levels once they're completed, or even via screenshots because the "wow this is beautiful" factor is what everyone is going after.

With a level design, you can share it using the same method, but it needs to be experienced for people to have that wow factor. It's pure gameplay. So until you get that barrier out of the way, and we can all browse through a 3D version of the internet where a simple jpg can be rotated and "visited" or "experienced", you have no real clue how the design plays like.

I know, I'm dreaming with my eyes opened

Interesting thread to read through.

I think level designers are very underestimated in the game design industry. Environment artists get all the credit for making the awesome-looking models/textures, the people that make the game immersive through gameplay don't get as much credit at all.

However, it's the same with other mediums of entertainment, film/television script writers tend to not get a lot of credit, it's the actors and/or cinematographers that get most of the credit.

Quote from Steppenwolf

(so things can be discussed that are not for public).

Things? What things?

Quote from PogoP

Interesting thread to read through.I think level designers are very underestimated in the game design industry. Environment artists get all the credit for making the awesome-looking models/textures, the people that make the game immersive through gameplay don't get as much credit at all.

However, it's the same with other mediums of entertainment, film/television script writers tend to not get a lot of credit, it's the actors and/or cinematographers that get most of the credit.

The problem is the wording of our job title. While it's clearly the easiest way to describe what we do, it's also a very specific job title you can't find in any other industry. The mass public has no idea we even exist. A 3D artist is a lot easier to sell as a concept. You're an artist, that's fine and you work in 3D that's good too.

However I've been told several times now by recruiters at the studios I worked at that designers are starting to be valued more for what they bring, and that the industry understands what a great designer brings to the table, and why it's important to keep them on your team.

Obviously for every one of these studios, there's the gazillion others who will pink slip you at the end of a project because they don't "need you anymore".

You could just be anonymous.

Also that whole "act respectable in public to put on a good face" thing doesn't really seem to be a care for a lot of more well known people in the industry.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure such things do exist, though I don't know about specifically for level designers. I've heard of "secret industry mailing lists" and "forums" mentioned on the sly before.

Not having time or being able to work on personal stuff in your spare time might be a factor. But yeah since it's a specialised job you would assume that most of the guys doing it would have come from working on games in their spare time and would be hanging around the modding communities but it doesn't seem to be that way.

I can actually say that I've yet to work with any level designer who's had previous mod experience. And in the 2 and a half years of experience I have so far, I've already worked with at least 30 different ones. Some are architects, others used to design engineering tools, some were fresh out of design school, etc etc. One of the guys demoing PoP at E3 starting tomorrow used to print his own comic. Anything goes it seems.

Basically, if one of them has a portfolio, he works as a level artist, not a level designer.

but that's the ubisoft way... there are still a lot of companies who have the jack-of-all-trades type level designer who also models and textures his own level (ontop of designing it) ....but this is getting more rare I think...industry seems to swing more towards specialized positions these days.

Quote from kleinluka

industry seems to swing more towards specialized positions these days.

yes, and that's both good and bad.

Good because, one has the opportunity to specialize in a single area, and since practice makes perfection, odds are that it will do a good job.

On the other hand, it's bound to be a lot more tedious job, since you'll be doing the same for quite some time on that company.

I work on a small company, we're 10 guys atm, and since we are a small team, i get to do a handful of tasks, level design, textures, models, and all the other small tasks like helping out with the in house tools. This is a very enrichful experience. but I admit I would love to work as a full time environment artist on a AAA title... We'll see!

I love how wonderfully varied the role is.

Quote from Zeta

Not having time or being able to work on personal stuff in your spare time might be a factor. But yeah since it's a specialised job you would assume that most of the guys doing it would have come from working on games in their spare time and would be hanging around the modding communities but it doesn't seem to be that way.

tbh: no single person in the company where i work has ever been part of the modding community. thats a ratio of 12:1

and i can understand why these people dont want to be a part of an online community: most of these suck ass. too many dumb asses that bitch around. hence a forum might be wasted time and effort.