TF2 Pyro Update THIS WEEK!?!

    As a statement “finest multiplayer experience ever” is about as bold as it is subjective, so I’m not going to bother tackling that loaded hyperbole. However, I would never dispute its status as a good game.

    It also has nothing to do with pride, either. I am simply glad I’ve missed the frustration of another class update and won’t be compelled to log onto a server with 19 other heavies taking turns to kill with taunts underwater. I was going to go into unnecessary detail again about why these staggered, achievement-driven updates are bad for a team-based, classed-based FPS, but it's evident it would ultimately just serve to troll.

    Quote from Taylor

    As a statement “finest multiplayer experience ever” is about as bold as it is subjective, so I’m not going to bother tackling that loaded hyperbole. However, I would never dispute its status as a good game.

    Beaten to the pie. Exactly what I was going to say.

    It was intentionally hyperbolic to get the kind of response I was after. You have to admit that such a vague comment is going to be perceived as trollish.

    From the sounds of it you like your games to be very routine, maybe even repetitive. Would you like TF2 more if it just remained the same and stale for several years? I personally loved it when loads of people started playing pyro after the pyro update, almost like reaching the last level in a single-player game where there's hard enemies everywhere.

    I'm personally very appreciative of how Valve are staggering the updates. Can you imagine the sheer chaos of logging on and there being 27 new weapons floating around? And can you imagine how overwhelming it'd be for newbies if they weren't restricted from the extra weapons until they've become somewhat adept at the class?

    I think Valve's approach is superb. I can't see how they could increase the complexity for die-hard players getting bored any more gracefully.

    Aye, I really do genuinely enjoy it. I can't wait for the heavies seeing as I'm an excellent spy.

    It's also a testament to how balanced TF2 actually is, because even when you do have teams comprised primarily of a certain class it's always possible to counter them. I've seen entire teams of defending engineers be wonderfully smashed to pieces on Dustbowl thanks to a few synchronised ubers, whereas in TFC that could very easily have been inpenetrable. Thus, no need for those silly class limits that most TFC servers had.

    Horses for courses, I guess.

    Quote from Thrik

    It was intentionally hyperbolic to get the kind of response I was after. You have to admit that such a vague comment is going to be perceived as trollish.From the sounds of it you like your games to be very routine, maybe even repetitive.

    I'm not quite sure where you got that impression. It is clear from all my prior replies on this subject, including those in this thread, why I don’t like the class updates and I decided to go for something short and sweet rather than reiterating why. Though I can see already, that I'm going to end up saying it all again.

    Quote

    Would you like TF2 more if it just remained the same and stale for several years? I personally loved it when loads of people started playing pyro after the pyro update, almost like reaching the last level in a single-player game where there's hard enemies everywhere.

    TF2 wasn’t in any danger of becoming stale before these updates and the original TFC remained fun for several years without any major overhauls to the classes. Secondly, if a team of Pyro’s is "harder" then there's balancing issues, though I'm assuming this is not the case and you’re trying to find the silver lining in the game turning homogeneous. You can argue that after the update has ‘calmed down’ and everyone is geared up the game is better, but arguing the weeks of chaos after each patch are positive is never going to convince me.

    Quote

    I'm personally very appreciative of how Valve are staggering the updates. Can you imagine the sheer chaos of logging on and there being 27 new weapons floating around? And can you imagine how overwhelming it'd be for newbies if they weren't restricted from the extra weapons until they've become somewhat adept at the class?

    Not staggering the updates is the worst thing about them, I’m surprised you think it’s impossible to release them all at once effectively given how overhauls are handled in other games (especially other "class" based genres, like RTS, RPG and MMO). The biggest advantage being people would stick with 'their' class.

    Newbies having some kind of information overload is moot, because newbies will still exist after these updates have finished and be faced with 27 weapons to learn – not that it’s a particularly high or scary number. They also have the pain of unlocking the gear, while missing the brief window where dicking about on servers to unlock them is actively encouraged. One of the strengths of TF2 was dumbing-down the TFC formula to make it accessible, this is why we don’t have grenades anymore. So it’s rather strange in the face of this philosophy they’ve decided to throw in a feature that completely alienates new players, and requires them to meet the time and effort requirement of comedy unachievable achievements to start playing the game properly.

    It's certainly harder for me when everyone plays pyro because I generally play spy.

    Have you actually played TF2 with any degree of regularity beyond the first few months? I have, and the game was becoming fairly boring. Even with new maps, I just wanted a new way to play the classes. I love the fact they're building up more depth, and this has been a sentiment echoed by the vast majority of regular players I've spoken to. Indeed, the only ones criticising them seem to be armchair critics who don't even play the game.

    I do understand your arguments Taylor, but they seem like they're coming from someone who hasn't actually played TF2 since they started adding stuff. The introduction of new weapons and achievements has been an overwhelmingly positive experience from what I've seen. The best part is that classes people hardly ever touched have now become just as popular as the others, which is a direct benefit of the staggered system. It's no coincidence that the three least popular classes — Medic, Pyro, and Heavy — have been the first to get unlocks.

    On paper what you're saying seems sound. In practice, Valve's way of doing things is just more fun.

    As suggested, I stopped playing after they started the updates. Maybe when the Heavy update comes I'll give it a try, and it'll all suddenly make sense.

    To be honest I never saw the Medic and Heavy as underplayed... But hey, lets leave it here. I can see myself being piled on by TF2 fans like a fatty tripping in a school corridor any minute now.

    Yes! Green!

    I agree on the skybox though. They could have done with a second row of "real" trees, as such there is a large gap between the "real" trees and the skybox trees which jsut looks odd.

    I can't wait to see just how small these new maps are, I want to make one and if they are the appropriate size I will have time to

    So they are making another version of well. They keep trying to make a version people will like and they keep failing, but this should to it I hope.

    Quote from Zeta

    decent grass textures, in my TF2?

    NO WAI!

    Quote from Jenn0_Bing

    Yes! Green!I agree on the skybox though. They could have done with a second row of "real" trees, as such there is a large gap between the "real" trees and the skybox trees which jsut looks odd.

    It may just be a weird perspective. That wood structure looks accessible and I suspect there's something in between that and skybox like a giant cliff?

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