PC Gamer Exclusive! : Insurgency (Article + New Media)

The engine this mod is going to be created on hasn't even been released yet, are you implying people are jealous of the gameplay offered by a mod with no current gameplay?

As much as I hate being the "ass" type, I also am put off but modern warfare mods of today. Besides CS, I won't really try anything else. It's too boring.

But I won't let that preference detract from the fact that those are very nice renders and it seems some very hard work has been put into this mod, provided by a very able team of guys. And i'd like to say congratulations on having your mod supported by PC Gamer, that is truely awesome. Best of blesses for the future.

- Ewok

ewok > all of you

besides his point about cs... cause cs imho is more boring then most of these new mods...

you're jealous that nothing you did was ever important....not the mod itself

Front Line Force = boo

Move IN! = not out

Hostile intent = meh

Firearms = boo

Desert Crisis = never played it.. never will.

Anyone see a patern here?

And to back it up..

http://%7boption%7d

Or hey, i have Battlefield 1942.. why not play some Desert Combat, since ultimatly the same exact thing.

I would really like to see something different from the HL2 mod community. To many modern warfare mods. I like to see more Project Hull type mods. Or maybe some kungfu mod. who knows.

A reminder, this not directed towards anyone, just an opinion.

I would like to see more singleplayer mods.

maybe there are so many modern warefare games because the genre works....just MAYBE

i mean....what would you rather? an fps based in the 1300's? "oh no, watch out for my blazing fists and throwing stones"

btw i loved firearms (YES IM PART OF THE PROBLEM)

Quote from DUFFY

you're jealous that nothing you did was ever important....not the mod itself

People don't like realistic mods because they jealous of the popularity? What? Shouldn't you be under a bridge somewhere?

I think you'll find it's more to do with the only modifications you will be able to play for HL2 being realistic tactical counter-terrorism modifications or realistic tactical modern warfare modifications; with varying degrees of realism and tactics. Supposedly because "they work" – way to think outside the box. Now I'm going to state right here that "don't like" doesn't mean "hate," it is, after all, just a setting and everyone apperciates the talent behind it so don't pin that on me, it just would be nice to see something new.

and whats wrong with that?

lets see

A. its fun

B. people enjoy it

C. its a proven formula

if something works it works.....sure YOU dont like it....but its you vs the gigantic community that does....and until you decide to come up with this brilliant alternative, i dont think your "this mod isnt original hence isnt worth mentioning" attitude has any validity.

where are you when all the people in the modeling section are making models of ak-47's....or where in the skinning section people are skinning ak 47's or in the 2d section where people are making 2d art of ak-47's

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i dont think your "this mod isnt original hence isnt worth mentioning" attitude has any validity.

That's not my attitude at all. I even tagged this on the end just in case, but I still end up quoting it.

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It just would be nice to see something new.

I'm just irritated that people can't even make Team Fortress these days without making it realistic, although thankfully that has faded into obscurity.

Oh, any I will be doing whatever I feel like doing (mainstream or not), not holding up my fingers as a makeshift cross at the mapcore boards and hissing at all the realistic gun models because as I've already said - twice now - I don't hate realism games, I'd just like to see something original, so it's quite possible I'll be there typing guns into Google image search for something to tag onto 3d Max’s background, or making maps where I don't have to account for players leaping 1024 units into the air.

Front Line Force = boo

Move IN! = not out

Hostile intent = meh

Firearms = boo

Desert Crisis = never played it.. never will.

Anyone see a patern here?

You don't think this is anything to do with the hl1 engine and it being so outdated and simplistic?

You take the same concept, give it to 2 development teams and the final product would be very much diffrent, it's not the original concept that counts it's the execution of the concept.

Anyway INS has enough changes and additions to the genre to keep people entertained.

i just think that you have to be fair to the mod, no one REALLY knows how it plays so there is no reason to shut it down already.

look at farcry....you could call that original but realistically its really not.....its just your standard shooter with modern guns. the hl2 engine might completely change what we think of as "the generic modern warfare" type game. maybe its nothing like counterstrike.

i can understand where you're coming from taylor and it does make sense....after so many half life 1 mod's you eventually feel like people are beating a dead horse. if any of those mods that were deemed "failed" were on the hl2 engine before any other mod....i bet they would be instant hits. its the technology holding back the mod concept, not the idea itself.

if someone made a virtual reality game where you were actually IN the battle fighting in "modern warfare situations" would it still be your standard "modern warfare game"? no, because it takes it to a new level....it improves on something that already existed, but just blew it out of the water.

True. We'll wait and see.

Quote from 2d-chris

You don't think this is anything to do with the hl1 engine and it being so outdated and simplistic?

Of course not, its the concept.. they all had. Modern Warfare. And as Duffy mentioned earlier the games wouldnt be the same if they were taken on to a "whole new level EX. Virtual Reality" Well unfortunatly.. none of these mods took it there. And from what I have read about your mod, its like you guys are moving Desert Combat to the Source Engine. It might take a little level up.. but its not going to be anything new and exciting.

Now Duffy also mentioned that Modern Warfare games have a huge fanbase. A great counter to this comment would be Natural Selection. It has a huge fan base and it worked. Day of Defeat, it worked... and neither of the two are modern warfare. I wouldnt mind seeing a WW2 mod again. And I sure as hell would love to see a futuristic warfare game, maybe even aliens if planned well. But im just extremely tired of seeing modern warfare, its not just that it is every other game thats a modern warfare game. Ghost Recon, Desert Crisis, Battflied 2, Men of Valor, all the mods out there that involving modern warfare. But its also waking up, turning on the news and seeing modern warfare. Its an honest "lets move on" feeling.

Now these comments are not to offend the artist, because the work is great. But i rather see the astonishing work put into a different theme then modern warfare.

I think that kind of talent could be used elsewhere to create more interesting ideas. Create mods for the experience and fun, not to be popular. I'm sure not all of INS's team is doing it for the popularity, but that is the vibe I get when I read and hear you guys speak about it. Thats a reason why I'm put off of it.

In response to duffy's comment about same formula beacuse its proven? Whats the challenge in that? Why dont you try to make a game based on players being cubes, and the goal is to reach a certain height using team work amongst players. May not be the most popular mod but at least its a challenge for developers to make it interesting and pull more people into it. That is a challenge. Making the next realistic mod isn't interesting at all.

Which brings me into my response to mike's comment. Its not that I'm trying to be rude. Its that I'm trying to explain I'm not interested. They have yet to do something that makes me go "oh thats interesting, let me sit here and ponder the possibilities." Realistic weapons have been done. As have their trucks, tanks, ect. What are THEY doing that I can't get elsewhere? So yes, I'm going to snore because of that.

And someone brought up a good point about gameplay. What they say so far, is planned. Its what they _want_ to do. Not nesc. what is going to get finished or be anything like the final version. I know a number of people on the team. Argyll was really nice to me in the firearms forums and liked my splinter map. I really respect 2dchris's talent. This is not a personal assault to them, its the simple reality that a number of people are getting burned out on these types of games.

Quote from Crackerjack

And from what I have read about your mod, its like you guys are moving Desert Combat to the Source Engine. It might take a little level up.. but its not going to be anything new and exciting.

You obviously didn't read very well... Iraq is only a small section of the overall areas we're going to have. (Afghanistan, Bosnia, Haiti, Chechnya). Also, the mod is EXTREMELY different than Desert Cambat when it comes to gameplay (not even a little bit different..like..completely different). The mod has a focus solely on infantry, not vehicles. The mod also has a "different team, different features" idea going in that will make our mod different than the standard FPS when it comes to the idea that both teams will have unique advantages and dissadvantages, that will balance out. In a sense, think of it like NS with the Humans and the Aliens, different but balanced, cept of course in a more realistic setting with humans using different tactics against other humans.

Quote from Crackerjack

I wouldnt mind seeing a WW2 mod again.

Uh... lol. Dunno about you but I've seen and played more good WW2 mods than good Modern warfare mods.

Quote from Crackerjack

Now these comments are not to offend the artist, because the work is great. But i rather see the astonishing work put into a different theme then modern warfare.

Well, thanks, I guess, but unfortunately we are quite passionate of what we are trying to accomplish

Quote from von*ferret

Create mods for the experience and fun, not to be popular. I'm sure not all of INS's team is doing it for the popularity, but that is the vibe I get when I read and hear you guys speak about it. Thats a reason why I'm put off of it.

If we're creating the mod for anything, its for the experience and fun. If all we cared about was popularity we would screw the idea of realism in the first place. If you look at the most played games and mods out there, you'll notice that most of them are not realism-based. Our motivation for this project comes almost completely from our personal drives to create something great within this genre that we have a passion in.

Quote from von*ferret

Why dont you try to make a game based on players being cubes, and the goal is to reach a certain height using team work amongst players. May not be the most popular mod but at least its a challenge for developers to make it interesting and pull more people into it. That is a challenge. Making the next realistic mod isn't interesting at all.

I don't know anyone in their right minds who would make a mod out of your idea above, hehe. I know it's just an example, but it's kind of funny because the "players being cubes" part is not your emphasis there, it's the "teamwork" part right? The players working as a team to complete a goal, that's what you're trying to emphasize with that example. And I think it's funny because our primary focus for this mod is teamwork and gameplay, not individual realism. You might want to read more about the mod.

Quote from von*ferret

Its not that I'm trying to be rude. Its that I'm trying to explain I'm not interested.

You can say you're not interested without making such a big deal about it. When I'm not interested in something I just ignore it

Quote from von*ferret

They have yet to do something that makes me go "oh thats interesting, let me sit here and ponder the possibilities." Realistic weapons have been done. As have their trucks, tanks, ect. What are THEY doing that I can't get elsewhere? So yes, I'm going to snore because of that.

Hmm, let me think of a cool example about Insurgency that makes me think "what are the possibilities..." Oh, one that comes to mind right away is the idea that Guerillas will be solely for the purpose of the casual gamer, and will have a lot of cool features not seen in games before such as the ability to just hop in a random civilian car randomly in a map, or the ability to use boobytraps and such. To me, I personally haven't played any other games that do that for a team, so I'm personally thinking "what are the possibilities" for that. We also have many other things that I am quite interested in how it will play out as well.

Quote from von*ferret

What they say so far, is planned. Its what they _want_ to do. Not nesc. what is going to get finished or be anything like the final version.

Haha that's kinda funny because if you read any interviews you'd know that our FIRST (and yes, that's first) priority for release is gameplay. Not content, nor releasing quickly, nor any of the other reasons developers commonly leave out key features. We do not plan on releasing Insurgency until our priorities for gameplay have been reached. And yes, many of us do have experience on past mods and games, and know what it takes to make sure everything goes according to plan. One of these for instance, is a really solid design doc, and a really talented and eager programming team... which we have both of.

Quote from von*ferret

This is not a personal assault to them, its the simple reality that a number of people are getting burned out on these types of games.

Sure people are clearly complaining about "these types of games," but more people happen to be still interested in this genre.

Anyhow, I'm sorry that some of you are not fond of the project we're working on. The dev team on the other hand is extremely motivated and looks forward to creating something great. Thanks for the support, to those of you who appreciate our project :wink:

Quote from von*ferret

Which brings me into my response to mike's comment. Its not that I'm trying to be rude. Its that I'm trying to explain I'm not interested.

Then maybe just don't click on the thread?

hey guys u write way too much plz

I think a common misconception is the misinterpretation behind terms and definitions. That's only part of the problem.

First off though, I would like to say that i created this mod in order to have something enjoyable for me personally to play. I didn't start it up to persuade NS fans or UT fans to convert to be 'realism' fans. It's meant for gamers like me who enjoy the Military FPS genre.

I was unsatisfied with what was offered in terms of games and mods. There was Ghost Recon (barely out... MP could be weak at times, waiting sucked), Operation Flashpoint (didn't appeal much, plus weak MP), Day of Defeat (what kept me occupied, but I wasn't too big on the WWII theme), Firearms (FAMAS/SMG/Sniper whores, crappy damage system, bleh).

Basically, there was nothing out there that I really was into. Each thing had their good elements, but the downfalls usually stopped me from playing.

So, what I did instead of complaining of the lack of a good military FPS game, I went out and started making the concept of my 'perfect' game. Most of the inspiration came from my Basic Training back in the Summer of '02. I developed the mod not based on what specific features I like in other games, but think of how the downfalls of those games failed. I also outlined what elements made a good game (i.e. intensity, level of teamwork, feel, etc. -- Things that made the experience enjoyable and wanted me to play more and more) and thought up of how these could be implemented and how even real life aspects could improve these elements.

I have seen other games and mods rise. I have seen how they fail and what they come up with successfully. Red Orchestra looks great, but completely lacks gameplay. America's Army has a horrible feel to it, plus you only get to play as the Americans (another gripe of mine in most games). Desert Combat is way too vehicle oriented. Hostile Intent is more special forces oriented and lacks in gameplay.

What I ultimately want is a game to enjoy playing... after all isn't that what everyone wants? I'm not in this as a way into the gaming industry, but to just sit down and play something that I want to, not what I have to.

A misconception is that 'realistic' can't be fun. Well, I don't blame this idea because as demonstrated by such self proclaimed 'realistic' games.

I have figured that there are 2 main types of realism. Individual and Team. Individual realism is all that you see and can be boring. This is your typical iron sights, slow movement, one hit kills. However, Team realism is a rare occurance that you typically see once in a blue moon and usually with clans. When teamwork is used, that is realistic. In the Army, one man named Johnny doesn't go running and hopping around shooting up everything in sight... You work together as a well orchestrated team. I believe that if the right resources are put in place, even in pub matches can teamwork emerge naturally. But, most games - pretty much all - don't even include these elements. The major difference between Insurgency and all the other 'realistic' games is that we are going for more Team oriented realism than Individual. Sure, there will be an above average amount of individual realism, but we won't go overboard to ruin gameplay. Gameplay is the top priority and comes before realism.

This is all theory at the moment. We have seen things in practice and know what works and what doesn't. We will just have to see how things play out once the SDK finally arrives and see if these principles will work. It may turn out like Communism: Look good on paper, but doesn't work in practice. But then again, it may not... All we can do is wait and see.

All this hype really came to us, we did not seek it. We wanted to grab attention with our media in order to draw in people to read about the mod and see that it isn't just like any other modern 'realistic' warfare mod/game out there. We never expected to have PC Gamer approach us for a preview, never anticipated the MOTM Award from moddb, or have nearly 900 registered users on the Forums. As it has been said, the mod only exists on paper and in the people's minds. However, that image in people's minds is outlined by the information we have presented in how we want to create the mod.

I don't know what else to say and I'm sure most of you have stopped reading by now. But, I would just like to say that gameplay is our first priority, we are trying to bring something new to the genre and ultimately play this thing one day... and enjoy it.

P.S. For all those who complain about the lack of 'original' mods... why don't you start your own?

this is all way to much to read and i cant keep my eyes open im so tired.. but here we go..

there will be a demand for "miltiary sim" type games... because of people like me.. i will keep playing them..

most of whats being said here can be said about games like halo and ut and shit.. oh no.. another plasma shooting gun.. ohh.. great.. another rocket launcher.. ohhhh a railgun sniper-rifle?! lets all go get that purdy blue/red flag and bring it back to our base!... face it.. untill someone comes up with the next revolutionary gameplay idea... we are stuck with more or less the same from here on out... and besides.. Point of Existence owns all these military games/mods out right now anyways