Quote from Anarchy10 hours ago, Anarchy said: Hi, I made Halo Infinite's Bazaar map in CSGO SDK as a way to relearn the editor and I thought the map could be fun with CSGO guns and movement. Its dev version for now, I tried to implement a jump pad mechanic but something's not right with it so added ladder for now. I want to make the similar gun spawns and low gravity type in the Halo but its not going as planned. I can share the map files here...not sure if I am allowed. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi…/?id=2693021601
lol nice
feel like im half way through the game, having lots of fun, love jumping between cover and all the abilities, games tight
looks very clean!
this looks awesome, good example of a diverse theme park with a cohesive theme, the haunted house was a good way to spice up the contemporary setting with something fantastical
looks interesting
i like how you implemented jumps into your BR map, very cool way to segment movement in interesting ways
Wow very cool art
looks awesome dude!
I'm enjoying it as an open world action adventure, but not really as an rpg. The characters and mission choreography is great
I updated the water and mini map, new pictures on the OP, the update is still pending on workshop though
Bots still crash the game when you try to play defuse, but i tried playing Victorian on the deathmatch game mode and you guys are right, its alot of fun 
I don't want you guys to think I'm not listening, or that I'm dismissing all your feedback. There where some good points you guys have made about the map. I think while I achieved some of my goals in certain categories, I overlooked more subtle aspects of the game, like @Roald made a good observation about how the lack of negative space can make footsteps more of a presence on the map. Pretty much everyone has made a comment that the map is unintuitive, which, according the the standards of what you guys expect, I can understand, and even agree that is a negative about the map. And obviously the water sucks the way players can wade really far out with a sniper and get lots of angles, I'm still trying to find the best solution to the problem without sacrificing what it was intended for (negating fall damage and providing a sense of place) and @csWaldo pointed out that because of the open-ness, flashbangs are more powerful & annoying
These are all unintentional features that i'll admit are negatives about the map
On the other hand, a lot of objections you guys have made are premature, and in some cases objectively wrong. So many complaints about there being to many angles to worry about, only because you don't know which ones you don't have to worry about. During the test, I noticed everyone was looking at spots they had no reason to worry about because it was still the beginning of the match and it would have been impossible for enemy targets to be at the angles they where checking. The players didn't even know where the first encounters were.
You can keep beating it into my head that these are symptoms of how unintuitive the map is and I will KEEP AGREEING WITH YOU FOR THE HUNDRETH TIME. But what is not okay, is coming to conclusions so early when it's painfully obvious you haven't figured it out yet. You guys are free to dismiss the map if you don't care enough to put any more effort into figuring it out, I will continue to listen to all your points and see if I can improve my map based on your feedback
@blackdog I hate having to keep explaining and defending my intentions, I've already expressed several times what my goals where. It's a little bit of everything, but mostly because I like to try and push boundaries and inspire others. Most people try to make maps for what they already know the community likes, and wants. I want to be the guy that makes a map you NEVER KNEW you wanted. Usually these people are in the minority, and i'm okay with that
@csWaldo There are two kinds of information gathering skills, deduction which gives you knowledge, and induction which gives you varying probabilities. At the beginning of a defuse round, both teams competing at the highest level of play will know where the soonest possible engagements can happen around the map, If there is no enemy target at this location where they would expect them to be, they can begin to deduct positions 1 by one as they move around the map. This is the player exercising their deductive skills. The more players alive on your team, the more information you have.
However, as the match progresses, team members die, time passes and you will now be forced to lean on your inductive skills, making educated guesses as to where enemy target may be. Either because you are alone moving into a bomb site to arm and you don't have information because your teammates have died, or lost track of the enemy. This degenerative process begins as soon as both teams engage and the amount of information gatherers thins out and all of a sudden 1/3 of the map is left unobserved
Now, getting to my point; where exactly educated guessing turns from a valuable skill into a "game if chance" is hard to pinpoint. While most of us will probably agree that having more information so that players can make better informed decisions is a good thing, at what percentage does it become a gamble? this is semantical and not worth digging into, but I wanted to point out that induction is a core skill of CS as well as any competitive game, just because there are situations where you will have to make educated guesses does not mean it is a fault.
The degree to how much you will have to use your inductive skills in Victorian may be higher than other maps, but it still has all the same core features you listed in your post. Victorian will have players exercising all the same skills they are used to when playing vanilla maps. A lot of the positions you see around the map have to be EARNED. Terrorists can't get on the warehouse rooftops without smoking the double doors at the bridge, and even then they will be putting their backs to the CTs defending the bridge because of the way I positioned the ladder to line up with a certain angle on the bridge. terrorists cant get access to the apartment rooftops without sacrificing some valuable travel time at the beginning of a match, and they will have to break open a window which acts as a audio que for CTs on the docks below.
Right now all of your objections, and the communities objections by extensions seem to stem from the simple lack of comfortability because you don't know the key engagements yet, you don't know that CTs can throw an incendiary at the Ts alley way exit which buys you and your team enough time to set up around their exits, your team composition on the map hasn't developed enough to feel comfortable with the information they provide and as a result everything FEELS like a risk. Just study the map, learn the key engagements, try to find exploits and than think of ways they could be countered, use your brain, this map isn't going to hold your hand, that much is clear even by looking at the early pictures and ive even disclaimed this myself several times, its not very intuitive, but that doesn't mean its irredeemable, only that you may not have to patience to find those redeeming qualities.
4 minutes ago, DMU222 said: You need to understand, the majority of the csgo player base will quit playing your map less than half way through the game if they don't understand it right away. A map needs to be intuitive and understandable from just viewing one frame of gameplay. When a player sees a passage they should be able to guess with out going down it to what other part of the map it will connect to. Even when playing Roald's Anubis, I've had players on the other team quit (this was in MM) because they were frustrated with the way my team was able to control the map. A good map can have a high skill ceiling while also being immediately intuitive to players.
I completely agree that intuition is a valuable goal one should strive for when designing maps, and i wouldn't blame someone for critiquing that about Victorian, it's a valid point.
I want the mapping community to try and put aside their conventional CS wisdom for this map, and suffer through the initial learning curve to try and see what this map has to offer, challenge yourself to rethink the rules that are generally considered a given. There are a lot of redeeming qualities to be found here, just keep an open mind going in to it
