Why not use the same blue from the ref pic? The greens and purples just look a bit weird on the court. Coming together nicely... I forsee... hundreds of custom props! 
Posts by unremarkable player
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Might be better if the CTs start in a helipad and Ts start downstairs next to the hostages. Not so sure that the court works because it looks a little out of place on a cruise liner, and as mentioned, is a little like Workout again.
Having deckchairs around a pool would be better and more familiar as a cruise liner, since that's what cruise liners are known for, and a majority of the photos are of (decks, chairs & big ass pool).
Definitely need a skybox that has a blue horizon, lots of sea, and a nice picturesque sky with hardly any clouds. You'll need to create a 3d skybox with water going out for at least 1000 units in every direction.
And like FMPONE's last screenshot, you want to 'bleach' out the colours a bit, and give more depth to blues, making the colours a bit more vivid. You won't see a much if any purple, but turquoise, teal, deep blues, sandlewood decking, white railing and raised decking, green opaque glass, tan trim (some liners have a lot of tan).
You'll want to use HDR lighting and you'll want to jack the sun brightness right up, unless you're going for a dusk theme, otherwise it'll be too dark.
Some examples:
http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_wi…ck-59610193.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/people-cruis…ck-24524217.jpg
http://www.maritimelawblog.net/Cruise%20Passe…%20Accident.jpg
http://c3270052.r52.cf0.rackcdn.com/Crystal-Symphony-Sun-Deck-BSD.jpg
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Will be hosting this in Aus if anyone wants to jump on and have a play:
27.50.70.207:27045
It's also hosting Santorini
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Quote from Squad
Should be an interesting topic
This doesn't apply to all maps, for example inferno's bombspot B. Depending on how you look at it, it has one (Ts taking, unless they go through A) or two access points (CTs retaking) imo. I guess it also depends on how you'd define an access point.
I guess when talking access points, you're looking for anything you can move through, eg traversable. A barred window for instance isn't an access point, but it's still a vantage point. I find that untraversable vantage points often give an unfair advantage but fortunately there aren't a great deal many maps that have it. Overpass did but it's been fixed, and Mirage has one but it offers no cover at all.
For me, Inferno B has 3, the same as D2 B. I don't remember if construction ever existed in the 1.5/1.6 versions, but smoking off CT doesn't deny access to B unless you smoke off construction as well. There's been some pretty nice retakes through construction in pro games, and in most random MM games, retakes come through construction.
D2 B is another example having two primary entrances and a secondary entrance through window. Like construction, it gives you a good entry to the site and a good vantage position.
I recall that Ali has a nice alternate path on the left from T spawn when heading towards B to flank anyone in the cellars
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This is something I've always wondered, and no doubt many others, if there's some sort of secret formula to making a good competitive map. An interesting comment in the chat room the other day was to start off with a square, or a cross and work from there. The CS blog and some articles from PC gamer and various other resources always present a well reasoned argument for or against competitive map structures.
When you look at the most popular maps these days, Dust2, Mirage, Cache, Inferno and Overpass, there's similarities that all maps share. Dust2, Mirage and Cache follow the traditional 3 lane layout, that give ample opportunity for close, medium and long range combat, and employ a simple layout with staggered connectors. In my opinion, I think that Cache is has the simplest layout, but offers plenty of variety in the combat zones with boost points, height and interesting connector positions. Like Dust2, the B bombsite is difficult to access without good coordination. However, I think that Cache more closely resembles Mirage, with multiple vertical vantage points at both sites and plenty of open space and angles (connector, window, ct, palace, stairs vs warehouse, door, connector, ct, cat) to check, so many good defensive positions to play from.
Inferno also plays a 3 lane set up, but in quite a different way. In Cache, Mirage and D2, mid control is important for rotations and access to either bombsite, but it doesn't need to be contested. Inferno's mid needs to be contested to get access to B. My favourite map is Inferno, and my favourite part of any map in CS is Banana - it's a fantastic challenge for both teams, the choke point doesn't give an advantage to either team, and a successful push up banana can unravel the best CT team.
Overpass on the other hand is the newest map and Valve's latest attempt at trying to mix things up and provide something a little different to players and spectators. It was an exciting map to see played at the last major and started becoming the most popular decider map, due in part to its massive CT bias. The map has been recently updated so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out, but both sites were notoriously difficult for the T team to take and plant, and the only real chance the T team had to plant was to smoke the site off completely.
What I think makes a good map:
- Map balance when you can win it or lose it on either team (ideally Ts should be able to win 5+ rounds)
- Choke points that don't offer any real advantage to either teams
- Bright areas, good lighting and visible silhouettes
- Bombsites with plenty of cover and variety in placements
- At least 3 access points (2 main, 1 secondary) to a bomb site
- Open areas with minimum cover, and tight spaces with cover (eg. banana, lower tunnels, palace, apps, cache door)
- High risk high reward battle zones
- Vantage points with minimal to no cover (mirage: palace and apps and shelf outside a stairs, cache cat both sites, overpass cat, nuke cat, heaven, shed, silo)
- Small cover areas (mirage chair, mirage mid, inferno jungle & quad, nuke outside boxes, d2 boxes on site)
- Variations in height (although Cache barely has this, in fact it's just a 15 or so degree ramp)
I think when people talk about balance, they want to be able to win it or lose it on either team. I think Inferno and Mirage are good examples, even in MM and some comp games (Na'Vi vs fnatic on Nuke) where a really good T team can win more than 50% of rounds. It's a map that 9-6 is a good score, 10-5 even better (CT), but it's quite possible to go 8-7 either team either half (even 12-3 T or CT). I think one of the frustrating things on Nuke is that as a CT if you lose the first gun round you're going to drop a lot of rounds and your economy is going to be ruined if you can't peg it back.
There's been some fun casual maps made in the workshop, that look great, and play well in casual when people are running around with shotties and pistols, but don't play out well in MM when the tactics are different and the play style is completely different. Watching the pros play Mirage is different than how it plays out on mm, and same goes for Inferno.
I'd like to know what others thing make good competitive maps.
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Looks very nice so far, well done! Hope it goes well for you, best of luck
I'd volunteer but I'm new in this community. You'll have no problem finding volunteers
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Have you got any screens of the layout? Would be interested to know what changes you're making. Judging by the changes you're trying to make they look pretty significant. But it does look like a big time throw back to pre-1.5 and even slightly 1.6
If there's a revamp to Nuke it should be a new theme rather than altering the balance of the map. A snow theme - that would be cool!
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I'm with FMP on this, messing with Nuke won't make it Nuke anymore. It's survived 15 years with just 1 game play adjustment, and it's still ever popular in competitive scenes for a very good reason. It's probably the best high-risk, high-reward map, because matches between good teams are often decided by 1 round. It's expected that on CTs you'll get 11-4 minimum, but anything better than that as a T and you're likely to win. Even against the better teams, 11-4 on CT just isn't enough. Some of the majors last year saw halfs of 13-2 and 12-3 on CT, blowing their opponents away. Although I did see a comeback from a 13-2 half that was ridiculous (I think it wasNa'Vi vs fnatic?). In my opinion, the best game of the last major was NiP vs VP on Nuke, the triple overtime game when NiP looked as good as gone at half time. But they did barely enough to stay in it and snatched a round, just 1 single round to stay in it, snatching an 11-4 half time score when 12-3 was more likely.
Yeah it's CT sided and in pub games you'll often win 16-6 or lose 16-4 because you can't get the rounds you need as Ts and you can't coordinate together, and the CTs pressure too high up. Doesn't mean it's unbalanced, because both teams have equal opportunity, and both teams can win or lose it on the T side.
I think that Cache is probably the best first map with D2 a close second, just because they're balanced maps and can be won or lost on the T side, as well as the CT side. Nuke is probably the best 2nd map but its popularity has dropped off. I think it's better than Mirage, but Mirage was played a lot more than Nuke at the last major (even D2 was played a lot as the 2nd map). Inferno is probably the best decider map, but Overpass is coming up quickly, played in the 3 finals deciders at the last major (all the ones before that it was Inferno or Mirage).
It doesn't get played a lot any more, which I find unfortunate, because it's a genuinely fun and challenging map to play (probably the most challenging). Although if you're a pro outfit, never let NiP play it, because you might as well chalk it up as a loss before you play. That NiP vs VP game though... oh my.. Worth staying up late to watch that!
Mirage - CT 10/5
Nuke - CT 11/4
Overpass - CT 11/4
Inferno - CT 9/6
D2 - T 8-7Train - CT (old 12-3, new 10-5)
Cache - CT 9/6
Cobble - CT 11/4 (12/3 anyone good)
People talk about balance, they look at maps like Inferno and Cache, which are still inherently CT biased, but instead of it being 60%+ it's between 50% and 55%. D2 is the only map that regularly favours the T team and it's still played, just not as much in the big tournaments. In 2013 it was very popular as well as Inferno, but in the last major, Cache, Mirage and Overpass were the popular maps. Even Inferno was played more than D2. Cobble was played 3 times, so there you go. That map was wildly biased and just a bad map to play on.
Quote from 8bitIf I only would posses the skills some of you do, I'd take on the project myself and with the help of the community, I'd give it my best to try and save Nuke. It's a real shame people only like Nuke if they get to start as CT's cause it's so easy to hold, you just need a good awper on yard which can take out an entire team, same with a good defensive player (can also be an awper) on ramp which in return leaves THREE players to hold inside... (Arguments can be made about a good awper on yard... An example rushing into B on Dust2 only thing is that Dust2 fixes this issue by giving you 3 quick options, running out mid, running up ramp or rushing long A, options Nuke excutes very very poorly).
Couple of well placed smokes and a jump onto silo will silence any awp. People in random MM play that way, bitch and moan about it, but pros are happy to start either teams. Strong CT teams will want to start CTs and vice-versa.
Of the hundred+ pro games that I've seen (a lot less than others on these boards, even those that play in them), I reckon I could count rushes on both hands.
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Thanks for the feedback! It's still a work in progress with about 40~ hours work of work so far.
Quote from TheGumaDisplay MoreAdd bridges or arcs that would separate key gameplay areas.
This is already something I've planned and have been collecting reference images to use
I also suggest you use different ground elevations, trims and textures. Don't just leave it like one texture, it'll look dull and repetitive.
This is just grey boxing stage with some textures in to break up the content. The final version won't resemble this version. There will be elevation added just after the intersection as well as footpath elevation.
From the first look it seems like the decals are repetitive and stretched - You don't wan't stretched textures, they look ugly.
Just temporary crappy textures for the time being
Lastly, add windows and entrances to the buildings - Make them look real. Use some custom textures for advertisement billboards, add wires to the lamps and poles.
Indeed, its definitely on the to-do list
I suggest you replace the Aztec props from the fountain - They don't fit at all.
I have to create a model that's going to be the water feature, they're just in there for the time being to break it up
The map in general feels very repetitive. For example the trees, they are all the same height and same rotation. Are they plastic trees? Fake trees?
Placeholder, better than solid grey blocks
You wan't to use different models or simply rotate each tree uniquely and move it slightly up or down for variation.
I'd like to use different trees, if I can find some models already created for hammer, or skinned trees, I'll do that, otherwise I'll just use what's there. But the street will be different
Lighting needs some work too - The buildings in the sky texture and the sky itself are blue-ish but your map environment is red.
Absolutely, I copied it from another map I worked on which was a desert theme, internal lighting will be completely changed when I detail to resemble natural tones
Try to have balance. It's those little things!
Also, it looks like you are trying to do American style architecture but have German (Overpass) props. The bus-stop prop has things written in German and the TIK BANK is obviously from De_Overpass
I need to make models for the building, it's based on a building in Melbourne, so I just whacked a couple of placeholder props in
If you are working with more open-scale buildings you are going to need to add more detail than that!
Absolutely! I'm still researching what kind of buildings will fit and how to do it
It isn't themed or detailed yet, but the feedback is valid. This is still in the greyboxing stage with some minor texturing to break up the different elements of the map. I had already planned to create a non-traversable foot bridge, as well as billboard advertising.
As for its openess, if it's a dual lane road, there really isn't enough room for the metro station unless its orientation is changed, which is doable. It seems to work quite well when it's played in demolition format and the battles inside the station and subway are quite intense. I need to adjust the height in the station section though.
How do you feel it played? Did you feel dirty playing it, upset at certain features, or was it satisfying and fun? Against bots it's not so good, but against people I've had a blast.
I created a to-do list on the steam workshop when I first published the map, it's got most of what you mentioned in there:
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Work planned for this, just don't have the time at the moment. Although I would be really happy to hear any feedback from any users who've had a crack on the map.
When I've played against my friends they've loved it, said it was heaps of fun.
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Just initial thoughts with regards to the layout - bomb sites seem to be a little isolated from one another, making it difficult for Ts to rotate to either site. Typically, CS:GO maps follow a 3-lane layout, middle, B and A, with one of those sites having an extra entrance for Ts or both teams to use (pretty much the winning formula for the most popular maps). I don't know how it plays out, but your mid rotation is potentially a little too close to the CT side and a little too easy for them to control. Each site has only 1 T entrance which could make it difficult for them to access.
Good effort so far, some more details, maybe some paths edits, even additional of a non-traversable mid (windows) could be good for early picks. There's issues with the displacements near A site when going from T spawn, you can get stuck on a few if you're walking up hill. Think about adding a player clip on the hill, or fixing the rocky bits.
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Did you have brushes intersecting one another or joining one another?
Glad to hear that props fixed your issue - definitely the way to go with the level of detail that you're after.
Since you're still fleshing out the layout and minor details, how come you're spending a lot of time on high level detail? Are you satisfied with the layout enough to proceed onto the detailing phase? Not sure if I've seen a workshop link to the map yet to check it out.
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Any chance you could extend this so say... Blender??
A lot of people who model for hammer use blender. Avoids the many $$$'sands they have to spend to purchase software they can essentially get for free (albeit, Maya and 3DSM are a pretty long way ahead of Blender in film, but it does the job just fine) -
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Wonder if anyone has heard of the National Gallery of Victoria? That's going to be one of my corner buildings. It's a pretty nice building in Melbourne, if anyone ever visits Melbourne, they should check it out. It's near the art centre and about 1km from Federation Square (another arts hub).
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Fortunately I can add in more props to block view, such as trucks and additional buses. What I want to do is add props and brushes to the median strip, blocking a lot of the view. The spawns are reasonably close to the metro entrances, so a quick rush (eg. Nuke vents) for either team will get you into the station. T spawn will be moved further back so as to balance game play a bit because at the moment it's T sided.
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Workshop link: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi…s/?id=395902210
Hours so far: 25
This is my first take on a demolition map, having enjoyed hours upon hours of excellent fun with Bank, Lake, Safehouse and St. Marc. I especially enjoyed Bank and St. Marc as deathmatch maps, mostly because they're so small, it's such as fast game. So, when I started playing with hammer close to two years ago, I envisaged grand maps, great maps, the ability to port perfectly, from one game to another, and then I tried. And I failed. I came to realise that I sucked pretty bad, I couldn't get the units to match up for the life of me, stuff was in the wrong spot and so forth. I ended up completing the initial layout for the first map that I worked on, a 2 site defuse map, but just couldn't figure out how to make it better.
So I set out detailing and having a bit of fun, trying to be artistic. I was satisfied with my endeavours but it never really worked in the context of the map that I was playing. Anyone who play tested it with me was really impressed with the detailed areas, but i just couldn't get my head around how to make it work in the map. There are screenshots in my gallery, but here are two I took today: screen 1 & screen 2.
Anyway, I gave up on the project for the time being and set about creating a couple of aim maps, get a bit of confidence to revisit, only I never did, and each time I try to get back to it, I just can't figure it out. Recently I went back in to start it up again, but found that some of the brush work was bad and pretty much had to start over again. It was a little disappointing to do that, and I think I'll take a different approach next time, using props instead of brushes for the more complex brushes.
Then I had a brain wave for 3 demolition maps and the only one I could remember (this was right before I fell asleep mind you) was a subway themed map with three levels. So I got started looking through the workshop to see what other people had created, names that were available and if anything was similar. I didn't spend days or weeks looking, just a few hours, and I didn't find anything taken. But I remembered having played cs_downtown and really enjoying the city look and it did inspire me a bit. I was able to look at the brushwork and some of it was amazing, and the way that it had been done - I didn't even know it was possible, and it was just so basic (using displacement meshes instead of models). I had a rough model in my head based on what works at the moment, drew it down, wrote a few notes and set about building it.
First dozen or so hours produced a working layout; 1 large building sort of detailed, enough to look like a building, a barely detailed with ugly ugly textures metro station and a subway platform without trains.
The next updates were creating my own road textures and applying them, taking inspiration from NY Times Square for the road layout and how it merges, as well as the subway station entrances. Properly boxing in the map as well improved performance out of sight and the terrorists didn't stand at spawn anymore like befuddled buffoons, sipping martinis until you shot at them.
I'm happy with how it's progressing and I've started roping my friends into playtesting with some positive feedback so far.
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This is my first demolition map. I'm still pretty new with Hammer although I've been tinkering for a bit over a year without actually putting anything together as a finished article that I'm proud of. The map is called Station (since Subway was taken
) and is pretty much a rush/deathmatch take on a demo map. Please keep in mind that this is WIP and I'm still putting things together and working out how areas are going to flow. I'll create a thread for it shortly and link it back here.[Blocked Image: http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/ugc/535137718207184262/C9A2B33D222624A3FE0297BCBEA0102F2922BFCC/]
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