Posts by kinggambit

Not as qualified to make any remarks on the environment art, but from our playtest and my experience going through the map, the only changes I could suggest while respecting the layout is to make the routes into B a bit more conspicious.

i.e. A vent almost blended in with the wall. Maybe a light source or a border?:[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/uYYYry7.jpg]

The actual engagements and chokes that defend B routes are fine IMO, but it was a bit hard to intuitively know B was beneath the hidden stairwell:

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/wzrfGpY.jpg]

These things are probably forgiveable since it's just a matter of players learning the layout but it'll definitely make it a bit less confusing.

Good luck!

Quote from mr.P

some heat-remake progress

Nice! I got excited for bit when I thought it was going to be an ancient egyptian tomb environment but looks nice nonetheless.

Wasn't surprised my unpolished build didn't make the contest cut, but damnit I'm still gonna make an Operation-worthy map one day! If anyone has feedback on what I need to fix about my map's aesthetics, I'd appreciate it a lot!

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/BdlCAdL.jpg][Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/GkQjnMU.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/Oss8zfj.jpg]

Workshop page for more screenshots: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/fi…s/?id=453634612

Quote from Sprony

If this is you, please reply with the role you are aiming for. This will help me in developing something new for the Core.

Not sure if too late but Environment artist or Level designer.

I dont go to art school though so my assets look newbie as hell!

One last bump post-contest deadline.

There were a lot of assets I wanted to (re)make and more polishing, but there just wasn't enough time for the contest deadline. I'm still working on making an operation-quality (hopefully) map though, so any criticisms and suggestions would still be appreciated.

One dilemma in particular is whether I should keep the environment clean or make it a bit more grungy. I liked maps like agency and workout so I'm hoping I can pull off a similar clean simplistic style if possible.

Ayyy! I remember playtesting this map a long while back! Nice to see it's finally come to fruition.

Good luck in the contest!

Quote from mr.P

then the fun stuff begins, like normalizing the textures

Honest newb question here, Can you explain what you mean by normalizing textures? Do you mean trying to make the textures more consistent with each other?

My normal textures aren't as pretty but AYYYY I got it working! Thanks!

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ao595Ud.jpg]

Quote from Yanzl

Resort: https://mega.nz/#!yd1kVAKJ!kHE…8CixI__hwDm1Jb4

Hey Yanzl, do you mind explaining how you got proper water reflections for different elevations for resort?

From what I was told, it was water_invis.vmt (for the actual water) + prop with water_fountain.vmt (for the refraction). Looking through water_fountain.vmt though, it only has commands for refractions, but no reflections.

Also, is there a particular reason you used a prop rather than func_brush for the refract shader?

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/w0qXKm3.jpg]

Quote from Scoots1m

I'm confused as to why the instances are even causing this to increase, as no T junctions are being created, as func details in the instances don't touch world brushes where they are situated in the level.

I thought t junctions were only created when a func_detail touched(or overlapped) a world brush? Or are they created in other ways?

Ah bummer man. I hit the exact same problem for my insurgency map a while ago. (those ugly pillars made of brushes were just eating away at the t-junc count)

Luckily for me, removing/remaking complicated geometry, using propper, and converting func_details into func_brushes helped a lot.

Did you try troubleshooting with visgroups and cordons? I eventually had to do that and it helped me figure out what areas were the culprits.

THW has a nice tutorial on it (search for "troubleshoot") but essentially you just compile with visgroups turned off and systematically going through them. Apply the same method for cordoning off chunks of the map.

IIRC, T-juncs are when either func_details or world geometry intersect.

Good luck to ya! That error bugged the hell out of me for an entire week.

Quote from Badstomach

Sorry for bad English but It doesn't looks like Korean Palace

It's more like something from japan and your reference pictures are also looks like Japan

The differences between them are miner and you don't have to change if you don't mind but I hope you know Asians are likely to distinguish them and feel bad about the misused theme (not me though)

My first art pass I heavily referenced Gyeongbok and ‎Changdeok but they have very noisy and strong color palletes, round pillars, etc. which weren't as conducive for Counter-strike:

[Blocked Image: https://travelthayer.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/gyeongbokgung-147-2.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://www.thecomicandsans.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/400482_645747459772_2103947_33739088_2145252227_n.jpg]

so I am currently trying out more of the korean buddhist temples and hanoks like namsangul with the white plaster + gold/brown wood:

[Blocked Image: http://www.blukotour.com/files/attach/images/6730/224/026/d48c72e6be0e1db16cc48766e1613b81.jpg]

However, thanks for the honest input. I'm looking at some buddhist temples in japan and you're right! I'm designing a palace so I should probably use the palaces as references. I will definitely focus more during my next art pass to get the architecture and colors down to suit the korean feel! I'll try again to add the reds and greens more and touch up on the facades.

Quote from leplubodeslapin

@kinggambit Thanks for the 2 screenshots with grey textures. I think it's quite obvious, and i'm pretty sure that everyone would prefer the look and readability of your map with grey textures, it looks much better.
So the problem is basically about your textures, you must standardize them. Keep in mind that when you do your textures, it's how you're supposed to see them with a bright white lighting, and your textures are probably too dark therefore the lighting can't affect them at all since it's already almost black. It's not just about increasing the brightness of your materials, you really must standardize them and if you really have to use a dark material somewhere, don't use it on big plane areas, add some contrast.

And maybe you can increase the brightness of your lights, even with grey textures it's true that it's still quite dark.

I hope that when you visited your map with the mat_dragray command, you realised the potential your map has and that you're lighting appears to be much better.

Thanks for the feedback. Never knew about mat_drawgray! Seems really helpful. I'll start increasing the lighting around the map using that method.

Sorry, can you clarify a bit on "standardizing textures"? Standardizing = Lighter/more consistent materials?

I think I know what you mean though:

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ux5J68L.jpg]

Oh also, right now, I've just tried to keep the walls light and the ceilings/floor dark. Is that a bad way to approach the contrast? i.e. the image below, I've tried to keep the lighter colors in the walls and floor while just leaving the dark wood material at the top. Is the dark wood ceiling too much?

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/vUTW9GD.jpg]

Quote from jackophant

I went mid once, and I found it entirely by accident. It had a couple of CTs ducked behind a balcony which was being shot through. I left and went straight back to B iirc. As Vaya said (in a personal chat), you should probably ask yourself why no one went mid.

While 10v10 playtests do not foster the best gaming experience, I found the map difficult to navigate. The constant CTs going A and no one really on mid is probably testament to that. Cts have to run towards A and then hook off suddenly to mid, if they don't they're all in A, or they could go B.

This isn't Dust2 go towards B to be in mid which is quite open. On your map you have to really find mid that's the problem, and I don't think it's obvious enough.

I don't find the layout believable because exactly what I said before...

but to clarify, this is meant to be a house, and a few gardens and it currently feels more like a cave system the way it's looping back on itself and cross over and winding around but you've just applied a korean theme to it retrospectively. I generally associate what you're doing more with japanese than korean architecture, but I don't know enough about the cultures to comment with any authority.

The textures being TF2ish is a separate matter, and imo it's because of the flat colours being used. They feel like they're missing a layer of grime or texture to make them feel rough and more realistic.

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I agree the flow isn't the best for CT's who are new to the map (like mirage's mid window for CT's where most casual players will just run straight past the vent). I already made some changes when I noticed this during the first half. Some people said B needed another route which is why I added in the mid to B route and I'm hoping I can keep it in some form.

My mistake, I thought you were saying the props and whatnot for the building were unbelievable/random, not the layout. I agree with that but I also think so long as I bolster the aesthetics (i.e. those "caves" are going to be "ondols" which are cellars used for central heating buildings. Youre right though, I'll probably open up some areas to be outside.

Quote from jackophant

imo B was awful. Everywhere I tried to hold I was shot in the back if I didn't die trying to get onto the site. Or was killed by a shitty lurker (mark...) at that pink scribble area. CTs get there way too slow for that camping area to even be necessary, so an aggressive CT push that way is rendered entirely obsolete even though it's a mission to get to the other bombsite.

I've shown in orange the pathing into B for Ts and highlighted some angles that can be held through it. The pink line is a problem as Ts can be there watching CTs cross their own bombsite, so we can't actually safely get into the thing reliably to play it. The green sightline felt like it should have been more powerful for CTs, but after having to climb the ladder and get on the bridge most Ts had already scooted past. That blue sightline is absolutely terrible.

The stones in the water...

Congratulations on the amount of custom content in the map, but I feel gameplay has slipped by the wayside, I don't find the building to be believable (it feels way too random to be a structured piece of korean architecture), and a lot of the textures feel quite TF2ish.

Pink line should not happen once I tweak the timings.

Not to argue against your points but I noticed in the demo that none of the CT's on your team ever guarded mid which often led to uncontested mid-to-B plays. Ideally, CT's would be holding control of that mid area to prevent or buffer from that. It's similar to de_cache's vent-to-B where if you concede map control of mid, T's gain easy access to an aggressive route into the site. I will work on the timings though to let CT's set up just a bit faster.

Anything specific about what is unbelievable/random about the building and the textures being TF2ish? Not sure what you mean by that.

Quote from leplubodeslapin

Can you get one or two screenshots with mat_drawgray 1 activated instead please ? It's hard to help with all these textures

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/7eQyIYN.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/zBZhxJx.jpg]

I made it a bit brighter and fixed some textures a bit:

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/vUTW9GD.jpg]

Thanks for playtesting my map everyone!

Quote from Vaya

inside lighting is far too dark and orange imo

I agree about the orange. I think the orangeness has less to do with lighting and more to do with the orange/gold textures though so I'll have to go through and touch up the textures.

For the darkness, I am comparing lighting of screenshot to in-game. I think i'm either going crazy or partially blind... :? The scene on the right is a bit brighter, right? I guess it wont matter though if I just give a little bit more intensity to the lights.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/rMcSPT7.jpg]

Is the contrast of the light colors and brown too jarring? I put a lot of the "white plaster to brown wood" around the map. I like it but not sure if it's working for others.

Quote from Unlimited_HAX13

I'm a newbie so grain of salt; is the facility supposed to be new? Looks like in BM they applied a layer mask in photoshop to give it a worn look:

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/4TehwD3.jpg]

You guys should consider decompiling Black Mesa levels and see how things were made. It helped me a bunch for my Black Mesa map!

Bumped. I would definitely appreciate some feedback on the color and lighting and whatnot before I fully commit to making the assets for the environment.

ayyyy! I remember you from the Insurgency map contest! Anyway, pretty much what everyone's mentioning regarding suggestions.

Dont remember if deathmatch game mode is allowed for the competition but if so, it'd definitely be more conducive to the map. It's too open and packed together to be viable as a defusal map.

Good luck!

Quote

Because there were no issues with the map. Status 2 is an optional second status, which makes sure that everything with the is fine. For you the check wasn't necessary since you had quite a few playtests with us already without problems.

We also playtested your map already but you didn't show up.

Noooo! Sorry, I thought I scheduled my map for tomorrow. :sad:

Do you happen to have a demo still by any chance?