Posts by OrnateBaboon

Well done chaps! I doff my metaphorical top hat in your direction.

Yeah, GG's!

cs_agency is fun to play, and really focused. Ripe for the art stage now I think. The only issue I had was that the CT spawn area is a bit open and hard to scan when looping round as a T. CT's can also hide in the bushes there which makes it hard to see them.

cs_siege - The one thing I always have a bit of trouble with in the sewers, is the fighting when you are in the water, since it is enclosed in a dip. In some of the more combat heavy areas, something like this - but a more interesting version could be added over the water. It would mean you are then essentially fighting on a flat floor, making combat much easier. You could also have some bits flipped off, or ajar. I know it would take away from the reflections on the water a bit, but I think it could make the area more inviting for players.

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de_venezia - It needs work, but it is early days. Thanks for the feedback. It is most useful.

Vilham - yeah definitely. Got those planned

Hey Puddy.

Lol! Yeah, route to A is pretty boring. No one wanted to go that way. I got ideas for that, which should work okay. Mid will get worked on some more most definitely. Was a little unwieldy.

Mazy - thanks for the feedback. I agree. I have brutally vised off all the areas so I can pack them with detail. With the stairs route, I think I went a bit too far, and it is a concern I had before, but never had time to change it. Regarding A, yeah, it is a definite possibility, though I will leave it and see what happens in future testing.

Siege - I like the map, but agree that the sewers can get a bit confusing if you don't know the layout. I really like the route into the sewers for CT's. Glad to see I never lost any health when I dropped into the water, which was a concern when I saw the screenshots before.

Quote from Puddy

Thanks guys! I'm gonna do some last tweaks and then it's gonna start receiving art. You won't see it for a while.

Next up we'll be playtesting OrnateBaboon's defusal map de_italian (WIP name? )! We'll test on Tuesday 21:00 GMT+1 (20:00 GMT). See you then!

Yeah, wip in every sense. But I feel have spent a decent amount of time on the blockout, so really needs testing. A slightly older overview.

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Yeah, fun map for sure. Clean and solid now. Nice to see the map get from the first version to this.

Congratulations guys And that video is awesome. Great analysis of the map.

We going to see a "making of article" like cs_museum?

Good luck!

Maybe make some highly reusable modular wall pieces for the perimeter of the map, and roll those out wherever you can. Or perhaps some displaced rocks, which can cover large areas without looking repetitious.

Really liking it so far!

I think the flowers and foliage ideas are great. I also think that sprites acting as god rays could work in the open roof sections, for example in picture 3. Also dust motes wherever you can afford them to give the map a bit more depth. Similar to the old source version of de_dust's interiors.

I have recently been going through tutorial videos in order to learn new things. The first video I did was the 3d Motive building tutorial.

https://www.3dmotive.com/f101001

For someone that had zero knowledge of modelling and texturing of any kind, I would say that this was really useful, since it gives you an idea of how to make buildings in a modelling program from scratch, plus gives some focus to what you are building. The tutorial is for 3dMax to UDK. The only downside to the video is that it does not explain how to make good normal maps.

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It is totally derivative of the tutorial, but at least it got the basics down. So I then tried to move onto making different stuff, and put together a mood board like people do on polycount.

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Basic BSP blockout.

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Then in order to learn some kind of hand painting, I hand painted some bricks. They are not amazing, maybe the photosourced one look better, but it was a new thing learned, and the textures are using far less shaders.

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This is where it is at right now. I can see a lot wrong with it, no depth of field, too blocky, and still kind of brush based even though it is all meshes. The roof stuff and girders are UDK stock assets. It is something that I will probably leave here since I learned so much doing it, and really feel that in order to do some good art stuff, I need to dive into some Z-Brush tutorials a bit more.

Another video I bought about a year ago, though I have only just began looking at it (less than 2 weeks), is HP's Crysis tutorial.

http://eat3d.com/cry3_intro_vol1

I have just been using the free SDK version of sandbox, and going through the video. It is pretty amazing how user friendly a toolset it is. There is nothing here in these screens though, that you won't find in the SDK forest level, but I do feel that I have the basics down. I have not done the lighting part of the tutorial yet, and is something I will be doing soon. The video tutorial is something I wholeheartedly recommend. Totally comprehensive so far, and it goes at the right pace. There are no missed steps either. These are in editor shots. Note, these are not my assets!

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Will maybe post some updated shots if I can make a difference with the lighting/depth of field, though I might move onto Crysis 3 and see what the SDK holds, since the free SDK has far less assets.

Gah! Yeah, I should have mentioned that the crits were for the first release of the map.

Regarding cs_agency. I like the theme, and it has a strong sense of plausibility, with nice clean textures. It took a while to learn the layout, but once it was down, I began to have a lot more fun.

There were some parts that I had trouble with. The main thing was that some of the routes seem to take a long time to get to where you want to go. The route in the garage for example, feels quite long, and if it were to remain as it is, feels like it would need another sub-route going up into the font area of the main reception, just so that it never felt that you were totally committed to pushing on into the lift shaft/deeper T side of the map once you got half way.

The lift shaft itself also feels a bit too hazardous a route, given all the climbing of ladders onto platforms. I saw a couple of players climbing to the very top of the shaft, and not quite having an idea of where to go, then turning back round, and falling down.

One thing I could suggest, though I have no idea if this is fitting with the idea of the map, is to make the main room, which feels like the focal part of the map, more like these images, which could give it a bit less of a rectangular feel. It is a similar style, so I think it could really work if just the bottom and the first floor were playable.

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Great work! Awesome really, especially given the time frame.

Some feedback, but only based on looking around and playing with bots. We need to play this map on the next test!

1. To me, the map seems a little too small for competitive play. It is also really fast, which is something a lot of the more competitive maps don't seem to feature, except maybe de_strike. I think it takes about 5 seconds for the T's to get to each site, meaning that the CT's don't have that much time to set up their defenses.

2. It also seems like it might be difficult for the CT's to camp in the bomb sites, and hold off the T's. The site near the sewer reminds me a little of de_piranesi, where if playing as a CT you camp in the more open site, it usually means you get shot from up high. All competitive maps allow for you to camp in the sites, and not have to push out to try and defend them.

3. The middle route feels quite dangerous because it has a really long sight line, and not a huge amount of cover. It has a bit of an "uncomfortable" feeling when going that way from the start of a round.

4. I get some obvious FPS drops near the CT spawn area, and the T Spawn area.

5. The map boundaries could be better clarified. Some areas look accessible - like the area behind the T spawn and one of the bomb sites with fruit and a palm tree behind some fencing. It is a bit trial and error the first time playing as to what can be accessed and what can't. The palm tree in this section is also clipping through the wooden overhead lattice type thing.

6. Some meshes are clipping into the floor and walls. Things like foliage meshes in the ground, and several crates are pushed into solid geometry.

7. The rock textures, and the aztec textures look really low res compared to the custom stuff. In some cases, I think it is because they have been scaled too high.

8. There are general smoothing issues on some of the curved brushes.

9. The drop down from the T spawn into the sewer sometimes leads to the player losing 25 health, because you miss the water, and land on a wooden board.

10. There is a collection of crates above the sewer site that are stacked quite high, yet the player can climb them. When up on top, there are a few examples of brushes being portalled out. Also, for players entering from down below, they almost have to look up 90 degrees to see someone standing them up there. I think the crates being accessible gives this part of the map a bit too much verticality.

Let me know if you need pics of these. Never had time to take them.

Excellent stuff Looking forward to the release.

A couple of things that I noticed when I first looked at the screens. Some of the cylinder bits don't have the arches and the dome structures on top. But there is no suggestion of why this is the case. No damage on the cylinders for example to suggest that they were blown off by something. As a result, I think there is a bit of an unfinished feel to them.

The other thing is the lighting, which has a pink/purple hue. I think it could look nicer if the ambient was a darker blue, and contrasted a touch more with the light environment, so that the shadows on the buildings were more pronounced.

And good luck in the competition!

Edit: In the third pic, the crate is clipping into the upper trim on the wall.

Of course, how could I forget 747! The last test was a lot of fun. I think the new update should have a really positive impact on the map, since it should make the tighter areas easier to navigate.

When are we planning the next test? At the very least, cs_siege and cs_museum could do with testing because of the new update to the hostage rescue mode

Good games! Will reply about the other maps at a later point once we have played them a bit more.

Regarding the new route on cs_siege. Initially I thought it was a good idea, since it does give the CT's another route to get to the hostages and flank any onrushing T's. But I think that once the T players learn that the route is there, they will use it just as much as the CT's, and push through to control the office area, meaning that the CT's might avoid going this way altogether. There is also the possibility that the new route might spread out the combat a bit too much, meaning that the interesting clash point out in the open area, becomes less enjoyable. One of the great things about siege is that if both teams rush, they meet head on, and the fights are a lot of fun. But the new side route might dilute this.

There is also the chance that the T's, knowing about this route, will simply not come out of the warehouse area, and just stay back and camp, because they don't want to get flanked by any CT's using the new route. Of course, I could be entirely wrong about all of this, since we never played the map for that long. But in any new tests, I think it is something worth keeping an eye on, because even though it is just a small side route, it could lead to big changes in the way the map plays.

You could give this stock one a whirl. Mostly blue, but maybe enough red to make things work. I have found that sometimes a change of skybox can go a long way towards making the light look really different, even if it has not changed at all.

Feedback based on the test:

Plays awesome! Simple, yet with enough variety to remain interesting.

The matches were super close all 3 times. Couple of 8-7's.

Looks much better in game than in the images. Your screen taking skills suck!

Excellent eye-candy/3d skybox.

The huge bridge is epic!

Love how all the custom stuff combines seamlessly with the stock content.

It has a fricking T-Rex!

Gameplay Issues

I got serious FPS drops in the map, which meant I was often avoiding the more demanding areas.

There is an invisible wall near CT spawn leading down the the left. Between a car and a railing if I remember correctly. Looks like the player can easily fit out here, but can't.

A lot of corners and details need a clipping pass to stop the player from getting snagged - you probably know where these are.

This might have been my lack of map knowledge, but I think some T spawns are facing the "wrong" way. It would be good if they all faced towards the museum exit, rather than the Hossies.

The bots sometimes try and get out of the map, meaning that the player has to go and hunt for them. Have you used player clip in this area instead of ordinary clip (the red brush)? Bots will try and go throught the pink clip if they are used on walls.

Just theorising, but I wonder if the map might be a bit T-centric if played on high numbers. If the T's all camp in the museum, and use the windows/exits to pick off players, it seems like it could be hard for the CT's to make it inside, or even close to the hossies.

Art stuff

Bloom is a tiny bit heavy in the interiors. Does give it a unique look however, but I think striking a better balance between aesthetics and player visibility is still possible.

The lighting is a touch too yellow/brown on the outside, making it hard to pick out players.

I totally understand why they have to be there, but the crates combined with the ladders leading up to the second floor look a little "convenient". I think the ladders and scaffolding would be fine on their own, but the crates make things look too gamey.

Totally pedantic ass-hole mode!

While it affords variety from the other raised platforms, I am not totally sold on the water section in front of the museum. It definitely provides for a nice unobstructed view of the museum, but when I first saw it in game, I thought it looked odd. Almost like "What is a swimming pool...filled with swamp water doing outside a museum!?" Might just be a personal preference thing though, and not a real issue. Perhaps others can chime in on this.

The room with the hostages has a bit of a square feeling to it. I think it is because the ceiling is flat, and could very easily be dome shaped/octagonal, or something like that. Again, might be a preference thing, and making it any other shape might have that over engineered look.

Anyway, I look forward to more tests . Would be good to get some snipers on the map as well to see if there are any areas or sight lines that feel too powerful.

And if I made the map, I would be feeling like this:

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