Posts by mawibse

MOD ABUSE!!! Hehe! :wink:

Quote from mawibse

The fact that you dont know, that you are not conscious of it proves that your consciousness cannot control evrything and therefor there must be something else

First off, its not a fact that I don't know, its a very likely asumption, and that your not conscious of it proves that... eh...

I agree, my consciusness does not control everything, thank god, I'd prefere if its control is limited to my body.

Some consider the "something else" to be the laws of nature. But you are welcome to whatever floats your boat.

Harness the brain correctly is up to the individual. I mean how do you judge if math is correct or if social interaction is the correct way to harness the brain?

Usually you harness the brain depending on what you work with and what hobbies you have, i.e. what you do. That's a pretty correct way to use it to me.

Well its always interesting with comparing "ordinary" guys to mensa guys or idiot savants with Asperger syndromes who have amazing abilities like storing complete phone catalogs in their minds and such.

Problem is you don't usually compare what the "normal" guys are good at with how the godlily intelligent do in those areas. Let's just say that usually the smart have sides where they are way bellow average and where the normal people use more of their brains.

Also how much of the brain you use is a bit misleading, for example those doing something they are good at like a mensa girl finding patterns actually fire off less activity between synapses then the ordinary, however their overall brain activity (think blood flow, kinda) are more spread out. This is of course also largely dependent on what task is performed.

And in some ways its true that we know very little about the brain but it always depends on what you compare too, and that is true for all science fields.

Heck even some mathematical proof nowadays are so complex that even with computers we only endure to verify some proofs to 99% certainty.

There are a lot of studies and research going on in the cognitive science field, so we know more then you think.

Quote from Kosmo

"humans use only 10% of their potential capacity"

BS, its from an ad campaign from 1998-99 something, you use 100% of your brain.

Its how you use it, not how much, that matters. You do "fire off" about a maximum of 10% of your synapses at one time though, fire off more and you would go into seizures.

If someone is naturally very skilled at something,(counting large numbers ala Rainman) does not mean that he uses a part of the brain most don't, it means he's using it in a way most don't.

But guess if some people like that notion, think of the possebilities! Usually people who's into paranormal psychich stuff absolutly LOOOVE that old tale. *sigh*

Quote from Kosmo

"human brain can store from around 1TB to 100TB of information with much more efficient data compression and storing than computer ofcourse".

You have about 100 billion brain cells, the brain does not work sequential and does not store or process information digitally so any comparison with a computer is extremely shady business.

But.. IF.. you extrapolate the known amount of information the retina sends to the brain it would amount to roughly 100 trillion instructions per second, which would give us until about 2030 before we are surpassed by computers, but like I said, shady business.

Other popular misconceptions about the human brain:

Its grey; A "fresh" brain is pink to red and very soft and jelly like.

Quote

But sure, a metaphysical soul, god or strawberry might very well be the one who starts or affects those activities, but honestly, I don’t think so.

But do I know? No.

But neither do I know if it was the soul of the stone that decided it was time to roll down the hill.

The fact that you dont know, that you are not conscious of it proves that your consciousness cannot control evrything and therefor there must be something else

Quote from The Postman

I get the brunt of loathing of Americans if I travel to other nations strictly because well, I have an American accent. Now am I to blame for everything the US has done?

You folks invaded Iraq, you first said you did it because they where a threat with their WMD's then when they didn't exist you said it was because the Iraqis needed to be liberated, the invasion costs more then ten times civilian Iraqi lifes then US soldiers, and now you're crying that the world don't like you? You can't be that obtuse.

Quote from RD

And what is the awareness of an I made of if not of thoughts?

The same thing love or fear is made of, electrical currents in the brains.

You experience it much more then your thinking about it.

You have an awareness of an I without thinking about it.

Quote from RD

Basically you say there is something else than our thoughts that controls our will,

Yes the consciousness, it's a higher mental process.

Consciousness is more then just a bunch of uncontrolled thoughts though.

Quote from RD

Basically you say there is something else than our thoughts that controls our will, which is exactly what i said was the logical conclusion.

No you said the logical conclusion was that there was a metaphysical soul making the decisions and feeding them to the brains.

Consciousness is quite physical as it is beyond a doubt originating from your brains.

Quote from The Postman

You folks made the cartoons, you reprinted the cartoons to antagonize the Muslim world and now you're crying that they don't like you? You can't be that obtuse.

You girls took on the short skirts, you made the sexy walk, you teased them with your dancing and now you're crying because they raped you? You can't be that obtuse.

Quote from RD

Because a conscious choice is made of thoughts too, the same thoughts or doors that were put there by someone else.

Be they thoughts or doors, their origin is always from something we have no control over.

If you play the backtrack game, only if you where an omnipotent god would you have a free choice. Even a soul wouldn't help you there.

Quote from RD

If you cant choose the doors at the beginning of your thought process CONSCIOUSLY, then you have no free choice of where you will end.

Because?

Say I have two thoughts I have no control over, but the choice between which one to go with, is a conscious DECISION.

Quote from RD

But in order to make a conscious choice between the two, there has to be more thoughts than those two, or you wouldnt be able to think about the thoughts. You cant make a conscious choice without thinking.

Uhmm, two thoughts would be the ones you couldn't control and the third would be the conscious thought leading to the decision of which of the uncontrolled thoughts to go with.

Quote from RD

Its so mindboggingly simple that its complex.

I think you oversimplified since I can't follow your logic.

Let me just add some additional reflections:

Thoughts might start off as uncontrolled but you can control where they go.

Consciousness is not just thoughts, it's the awareness of an 'I' as well.

You can have multiple consciousness at once or different, one at a time.

The feeling of having done something of free will has nothing to do with if your brain actually controlled what happened or vice versa.

Ehem, how about starting a "the end is near" thread instead of posting that in this thread?

Falsify your thought, hmmm, how about questioning the reasons for this theory?

Ok so your a priori is awareness of yourself or that a 'I' exists, and you say that all a posteriori is distorted through 'glasses' or rather by the 'tools' we need to experience them.

So you got one a priori, and you dismissed all a posteriori, you will need a couple of more a priori to make logical reasoning concerning free will and its relation to awareness don't you think?

Give them to me and I will squash this theory like a fat bug.

Quote from RD

A paradoxic example for this paradigm, youre hungry and see 3 donuts, 1 pink and 2 black. Your first thought is to eat them, you have no control over this thought because its an impulse. Youre second thought is youre overweight. You have no control over this thought either, it is based on the memory of a recent heart attack. Youre decision not to eat the donuts is based off 2 thoughts you had no control over.

Lets go with your idea that the two "thoughts" dictating the decision is something you have no control over, how does this logically mean that the decision is something I have no control over?

Its like saying that if you could pick the two doors yourself, from which you will choose one, then it would be a free choice, but if someone else put the two doors there, then choosing one of them is not a free choice?

Quote from DaanO

awareness cannot be explained only through physicial processes and that it can be traced back to a more pure level of reality which be can get a glance of through conscience

Why do you think awareness cannot be explained through physical processes only?

What does "a more pure level of reality" mean?

Quote from RD

Sleep deprivation AKA unlimited solitary confinement in rooms filled with strobing lights and white noise, naked, exposed to extreme heat and cold and chained in positions that are designed to cause maximum stress on the muscles . After 5 minutes you will wish they pulled your nails out. The only step down the ladder is there are no visible scars

Actually you just wish that whats "hurting" you would go away, and it usually does not involve painful removing of your nails cause that kinda hurts too.

And as a side note, similar experiences to what you described above is actually part of most special forces training in most western countries.

And in that combination it is considered fully fledged torture whom ever you ask.

Thats however pointed out during... after most of those exercises.

Quote from von*ferret

but them being uncomfortable has lead to such revalations as other attacks planned on LA, oil pipes, and our bridges. So my safety and safety of countless other individuals who do not deserve to suffer is worth their discomfort.

If we are still talking Gatmo I must say that the only reason for their detention now is that they might join the opposition again after release, not that they have any information we might need.

Quote from von*ferret

If I was serving and were ordered to do those things, I would simply deny the order and go to my superiors

Well it would be a superior who ordered you in the first place.

And the punishment for not carrying out an order from a superior will hit you allot faster and allot surer then a possible punishment of mistreatment of illegal combatants sometime in the future.

Im not defending their actions, just saying that its from the individual perspective for most militaries much better to carry out a bad order then to go behind your superiors back.

Quote from The Postman

!!!!!!!1111oneoneone

Stop that... it breaks my concentration..

As a causal reflection Id like to point out that bad apples, for using the US military term, seems to be present on both sides, on our as torturing guards and on theirs as cutting of heads.

Both sucks for me on a personal moral level.

I think USA has lost allot of international credibility because of Gatmo and the reasons for going into Iraq.

Not sure how much important information or troops we would have lost if we had taken the "higher road" by going easier on captured enemies, this is no easy issue.

Quote from Lurker

Mawibse, what would it take for you to admit that we torture people?

Nothing, if you think that sleep deprivation is torture then fine, then we torture.

But I'd like to point out that sleep deprivation is a long step from pulling fingernails and electro treatment to testicles, at least in my book.

Quote from Scraps

If we're in a war, how come they aren't accorded POW rights?

POW's are accorded POW's rights, but those in Guantanamo is not because they broke the laws of war; like using civilians as shields, wearing civilian clothes and not a unified uniform, using not allowed tactics such as pretending to be medical staff and such. You know, basic Geneva stuff.

Quote from Lurker

Technically, it's not a war

Because?

Quote from Lurker

As far as I'm concerned, this is a classic tale of treating your enemies with the respect you would want your own people to be treated by your enemy iif they happened to be captured.

War isn't as noble as you think it is. You KILL your enemies.

When someone KILLS your friends its damn hard to having respect towards those who did it. Especially when they constantly break the Geneva conventions, cut their captured prisoners heads off and knowingly targets civilians.

Quote from Lurker

I find it hard to give out sympathy to those policy-makers who deem it necessary to add fine print the legislation so they have a loophole big enough to torture people without consequence.

I agree that there shouldn't be any changes in legislations for such, if you need to step outside the conventional interrogation methods there should be possible consequences enough so you don't do it to often.

Quote from RD

To philosophise about free will

Oh... So you dont think free will is possible with "just" the brains making the decisions?

Well there are some really big stumble blocks of free will for me even if you add a soul to the equation.

What makes the souls decisions more "free" then the brains?

Quote from Lurker

Not so sure what makes your opinion more credible than the others voiced in this thread...?

It's not more credible, its an opinion, opinions are not meassured on credibility alone but mostly if and why you do or do not share them.

Quote from RD

but those psychological tricks are just a little step down the ladder of horror

True, but like you said, they are a step down.

And in a war you certainly take a few steps up that ladder.

Quote from RD

But you dont know what the soul is do you?

For the purposes of thoughts and decisions, yes I know what the soul is, a wish for something more comforting, a me that would last for eternity.

Quote from RD

Assuming there is a part of the brain that makes our decisions and is the root of our egos, what would you call it? The soul?

No, the Hyperdrivemotivator.

But there is no point in assuming there is a single part of the brains that makes our decisions and is the root of our egos, since we pretty much need the whole brains for that.

Like I said before, why would I need to imagine a non-physical entity that makes me conscious, have thoughts and make my decisions when the brains, according to most scientists and cognitive researchers, does it fine already?

Quote from Lurker

Have you been to Gitmo Bay?

No, but its like a large prison run by millitaries.

Is there something specific you want to know about it?

Quote from Lurker

What makes statements made by your opposition conjecture and your's true?

Lets not get philosophical in this thread shall we.

Quote from Lurker

I'd like you to produce a credible source to back up your statement about the investigators being invited to Gitmo Bay

http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.a ... 26&sid=WOR

http://www.politicalcortex.com/story/20 ... 135746/024

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/n ... tmo01.html

Quote from RD

Id rather have my nails pulled out than my mind dying of white noise and sleep deprivation

Well that sounds really tough n all but... I dont believe it for a second.

Quote from Lurker

Another example of the US government supporting a group when they support their position and casting them aside as crazies when they don't.

Hmmm Wasn't there a really big smear campaign in the US of a UN weapon inspector prior to the Iraq invasion?

Quote from The Postman

I'm sure it's just a few bad apples, and not supported, documented procedure.

So am I.

That was wrong.

But I was refering to Guantanamo Bay, not an incident in war zone where the guards got out of hand, whom has been punished for their actions btw.

Wicked groovie stuff!

2D pictures is one thing though, wonder how it works in stereoscopic vision aka "being there".

Perhaps the word torture is a bit misleading, we are talking about sleep deprivation, prolonged solitary confinement and force feeding of starvers, common "stress and duress" techniques. Not pulling fingernails or electric shocks!

Also the U.N investigators has not even been to Guantanamo Bay, despite being invited.

And The Postman, it's the validity of the accusations i'm discussing, not some persons lack of love for the biggest upholder of democratic values in the universe.