Hates MMOs! theyr authentic "time eaters"
Trying to dethrone Eve is just as futile as trying to dethrone WoW.
Quote from TaylorTrying to dethrone Eve is just as futile as trying to dethrone WoW.
You think so? I've tried EVE two times, once before the trinity patch and once afterwards (last week to be precise) and even though I had access to Goonswarm's ressources (one of the largest corps in the game), I found the learning curve to be extremely steep...or maybe it's just not my cup of tea, I found flying around in Jumpgate much more fun even when I constantly crashed during docking manoveurs..
EVE is for hardcore players, it heavily relies on PVP and struggle between alliances. It's a lot about politics and this whole meta-game about spying and treason, I think that's AWESOME, because that's one of the things I've enjoyed in Neocron and been missing in WoW. If Netdevil manages to make the game as easy to pick up and play as WoW (or at least as close to the original Jumpgate..) and at the same time create enough opportunity for PvP combat - this could become bigger than EVE!
If you look for hints in the press release, one could say that Netdevil is trying to accomplish just that, but I guess there is little enough information on the game available, that you could read anything into it at this point... 
I don't think anyone can dethrone EVE's hour long tutorial at least. Damn that was a deep walkthrough.
Quote from duxI don't think anyone can dethrone EVE's hour long tutorial at least. Damn that was a deep walkthrough.
See? Time eaters dude! Fucking time eaters! 
lol
hp if you have nothing relevant to say then dont post.
i ponder why it is people think that games can't be "dethroned". we've had games before world of warcraft and there will be games after world of warcraft (or EVE, or whatever other game that apparently has the "throne" of the genre). eventually any such game will succumb to only few players playing (counterstrike 1.6 is just about a perfect example) to just people that dont want to let go because their addiction is too full. now cs 1.6 is held together by leagues, and more importantly, money. games like EVE or world of warcraft aren't. it may be that either will dominate the genre for a couple more years, however i feel we're moving towards the end of their reign (world of warcraft, at least). there some high profile MMOs coming up this or next year so world of warcraft will actually have some competition; and with more and more people getting bored of the game itself, i reckon alot of people will move from game to game, as has been witnessed before.
To me EVE is Microsoft Excel Online, and I’m not going to defend it as being anything else. But when I played it (through beta) I found most of the mechanics to be quite casual orientated - such as the skill system - unless you’re planning to be the most badass corporation in the universe.
But to be honest, I don’t think it really matters what the perception of the game is from a few individuals. It’s the same problem developers are going to have with World of Warcraft and why I don’t really get the suicidal developers who are throwing all this money at something they seem to assume is going to trump it. People hot for space MMO action already play EVE, but they’re not going to stop playing EVE if something better comes along, because they lose their days of effort in EVE and the single drive in all these games is progression – typically directly related to these days played.
So I'm not saying this won't be a good game, but I wouldn't expect any kind of exodus even if it does deliver. Hence why I don’t think it will be “dethroned.” And as for why I think that, particularly about World of Warcraft (to use Sentura’s example), is players pledging loyalty because of their money and time investment. It's also worth noting World of Warcrafts player-base is almost entirely players new to the genre, not people from other MMO's who have been converted.
The bulk of players from other games were from Everquest, which had held the top spot by a huge margin for over 8 years and I can easily see WoW doing the same (seriously). And this snowball effect was a rather unique case, due to Fires of Heavens actions when SOE were not playing nice (there must be something on the internet you can find about them, their threat and Blizzard hiring certain people).
I can think of no example off hand, where a MMO has come out and everyone has gone "oh look, that's better" and instantly closed an account with 2,400 hours worth of play on it. People obviously aren’t going to be playing games like WoW forever, but they have a long shelf life and need to decline in popularity first - we all know WoW just hit 10million subscribers, that isn't a decline! And I don’t believe launching a new title when a game of that size is in its prime is going to dislodge its player base. At all.
It's in the nature of MMOs to have a much longer lifetime than regular games (on average). For how long has EvE been out? 4 years? 5 years? Longer? And it might have not reached the peek of its lifetime yet (see: trinity update, sale via steam). So when you talk about taking the first spot and one mmo overtaking the other in terms of popularity/users, it's like watching a turtle race. It takes longer than other game genres, but it happens. WoW just has a pretty big advance I give you that! 
WoW is HUGE, you don't compete with WoW. You analyse why it's so popular, you take succesful elements, put in new stuff that "distinguishes" your product from WoW. In this case EVE would be a more direct competitor anyway, due to its obvious parallels in...well, space ship flying And there is a number of things you could do better than EVE.
About MMO players not quitting so easily: I would like to see some stats proving that. There are always people getting bored of a game, looking for something different and almost each MMO goes through subscription cancellations due to patches/balancing changes. And the more people are lured to the MMO genre by WoW, the more will want to try different online games. And many might not have even heard of EVE - they better throw enough marketing bux at it!
hell people still play Ultima Online. The game is 11 years old! So yea MMORPG's can have a very long lifetime.
Ultima is in my opinion the best mmo to ever exist. That is until EA messed it up and it's pretty pants now. But back in the day it was beyond awesome. I've got millions of great stories I could tell you guys
To be more precise it’s like watching a turtle race, where the turtles are made of money at the ones not in 1st place catch on fire and explode. There’s not much to analyse about WoW to be honest, they took the MMO genre and made it simpler, faster, more casual friendly and better presented. The same model that Blizzard always use, there’s no new mechanics in there other people haven’t done before. But it doesn't matter, and this is in no way a "dig."
The only stats I know of are MMOGCHART.COM, which hasn’t updated for 2 years but, to me, looking at the data only shows Everquest declining rapidly with a new launch (Its sequel and WoW), the others follow the usual curve that Raph Koster wrote an article on. And he doesn’t mention rival products having an effect at all. There’s also my own personal experience if that has any weight to it, I’m not going to spend 2-3 months playing another game to see if I like it when I have years of work (and that's a very fitting word) pumped into WoW, I'd rather carry on blissfully ignorant to another products existance to be honest. I'm certainly not going to play two MMO's at once, at any rate.
Quote from TaylorI’m not going to spend 2-3 months playing another game to see if I like it when I have years of work (and that's a very fitting word) pumped into WoW
this is exactly what i'm getting at; the perfect example of pride. you play for so long that you dont think anything else is worth trying out. eventually there'll be a point where you'll get bored of whatever it is you do now, rethink about how much time spent on it and if it was worth it. i'd wager you'll think it wasn't.
i've been through the process myself and i realized that a game is not worth playing unless it's fun. pride no longer does anything for me, so any addiction rarely 'hatches'. if i play through a game and something within the first 30 minutes doesnt pull me in, it's not worth the effort. you may say that this is a relatively short timespan, but try to put it up against a demo of any game. you get just about the same timespan. what someone will probably say now is, "yeah but MMOs are much slower paced!" to this i would reply: yes, they are much slower paced, but if i am not out doing something in the game 30 minutes from when i get thrown into the world, then either the pace is too slow, the tutorial is too long, or it's just an alltogether inferior design. put it this way: i value entertainment over innovation and pride.
extra:
i also saw someone mentioning that world of warcraft's casual attitude is what secures its populace. sure the "casual" attitude is a factor worth pointing out, but what MMO is not casual? in which MMO is it a global race to the highest level that everyone implicitly participates in? it's not the "casual" factor that does anything for the MMO, it's the word of mouth. if your friends are playing a game and saying it's awesome, you will try it out. the same goes for any MMO.
Quote from Steppenwolfhell people still play Ultima Online. The game is 11 years old! So yea MMORPG's can have a very long lifetime.
MMO's can also have a very short lifetime. Like Auto Assault ;D
I'd be tempted to say SWG and Planetside, too, but I guess SWG is still alive, albeit in a whole other form than it began with.. And Planetside.. Well.. At least it got a few years before it died (4-5?). Although some people are still playing, afaik, it's practically dead 
Think there were a few other failed mmo's. But I think these might be the worst ones, since, well.. Auto Assault didn't even reach its first year? And SWG/PS were both ruined completely by the devs beyond repair, and in the case of SWG, they just decided to start from scratch because of it :x
-EDIT-
Also, lol.
Quote from duxI don't think anyone can dethrone EVE's hour long tutorial at least. Damn that was a deep walkthrough.
Just a shame that the hour long walkthrough is more or less useless for everything except the very basics. You are taught nothing about all the stuff that's vital to your prolonged survival You have to either get into that yourself, or read up on it on their extended player manual on their website.. And even then, it's rather lacking in a few areas. Guess picking up information about stuff yourself is some of EVE's charm too, though
It has nothing to do with pride at all. It’s the time investment needed to see if a new MMO is worth it, taking 14 days (played) to reach max level and finding out the game actually isn’t going to deliver is a lot of time wasted. That’s not pride, it’s commonsense. And entertainment is entirely subjective, the slow-pace seems satisfy millions of other people just fine.
A casual player is someone who plays 2-3 hours on some evenings and doesn’t make any commitments. You just try playing something like EQ with that attitude, where doing 5-6 hours of raid content most days is a requirement to stay in your guild and the only way to make your character better. The game doesn't end at the highest level, far from it. WoW is casual-orientated because there is never a point where the casual player can’t do nothing without making a serious time investment into the game. They can level up solo and relatively fast, and reach end-game equipment through battlegrounds. Its all at their pace and they can switch off whenever. Most MMO’s until this point did not let you do this, hence why its casual-orientated, and a giant factor to WoW’s success.
i'm not talking about pride in trying a new mmo, i'm talking about staying in the old. you saying you having spent so much time on one mmo excludes you from trying any new ones is pride.
I'm pretty excited about jumpgate 
Only because you're an MMO whore chris
Looks kinda too MMO-ish to me 
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