My simulation of Debate Numero Uno

Quote from RD

Bush defeated Kerry, its as simple as that

RD, Kerry whomped on Bush in the debates simply by being a better public speaker, not repeating himself verbatim nearly as much and actually answering more questions instead of dodging them.

Teppesh, I did watch the debates, I also read the transcripts. I think that Kerry won them, and so does a good 57% of the population. So you and Teppesh can go back to grumbling about the loss.

Quote from Teppesh

That is unless you like higher taxes, and believe that he can raise trillions of dollars from the rich, to both support the war and fund the myriad of domestic programs he supports.

Yeah, sure. I believe it.

First off, don't even try to claim Bush is fiscally conservative. Enjoy your deficit. The tax cut that you cherish so much doesn't necessarily save you any money and is primarily for the rich. Good job slinging the "omg democrats raise taxes!!!!" though. Where do you think that money comes from anyhow? The magical money tree that grows on Sugar Mountain? Come on. Get some knowledge on policies and actual followthrough and then come back to this conversation.

Quote from von*ferret

If you think Kerry is fiscaly conservative either Postman you're ignorant. Its a fact that his domestic spending plans will either put the deficit deeper or simply keep it at where its at. The difference is Kerry just wants to spend money, where as Bush was trying to boost the economy by using a "loan" strategy. Furthermore your little comment on the rich is bullshit. The top like 2% of the country pays for 60% of the country's taxes. So there is no reason why they shouldn't get some money back. Furthermore I've never been employed by a poor person, but I have by a rich person. So i'd rather have the people who know how to run business, have more money, so they can hire more people. Oh wait, this looks like a good fucking idea, nice job bush! (reagan)

Did I ever suggest that Kerry is fiscally conservative? As a democrat of course he isn't. You call me ignorant? Get your partisan politics straight before you start mouthing off. I'd rather funnel money into our own nation than the money-pit that Iraq is becoming, but we can't do that. We need to stay there until it's done.

My comment on the rich? 60%? Where are you getting your numbers? Sounds like they're coming from the land of bullshit myself. Back that up and you'll have my apologies. My problem isn't so much a class war as it is that the tax cut takes advantage of how stupid a lot of the poor are. They see this wad of cash - "Oh boy, $300!" - and go "Hot damn, he's got mah vote!" It plays on the ignorant. Actually, that point's moot since a good portion of both campaigns has been an attempt to rope in the ignorant and ill-informed. "Flip-flop" and "No Blood for Oil" idiots rejoice! :roll:

Back on track though. Mikey's made some very good points. Especially with the clouding instead of clearing notion. I don't think anything new was particularly said. Although many of the swing states are finally steadying (Bush favor btw, latest prediction a win with 296 electoral votes), I almost think at this point the debates are without need. The country is very heatedly divided (as this thread certainly shows) and everyone's already chosen their side, will the debates swing anyone? That's a good question.

Quote from Urban

glad this election is about the war... not so glad its about the one that happend 30+ years ago :/same people that are calling bush awol and all this other crap and are parading around kerry as a war hero... are the same people that defended draft dodging clinton... so.. if being a president means you need military service... why did dole lose? hell hes a true war hero imho

Compleeeeeeeeete agreeance. Why Vietnam service was brought up in this election - let alone made a major point of focus - just blows my mind. It has no bearing on anything, at all. I think that focusing on it has really hurt Kerry's campaign a lot - especially since he's been focusing on damage control for his past actions instead of campaigning.

Now now, both sides pulled rather dirty tricks. Telling african americans they'd get arrested at polls, telling people that "liberals" hate Jesus and the bible.

The sad fact is that Kerry is very un-electable. He's too...rigid, I suppose. Too much a politician, in the non-believable way. The fact that his main power base comes from the anyone-but-Bush 50% of this country says little for the man, or well, our democracy. I really think a combination of Dean and Clark would've been a lot more electable. Dean pre-scream that is. That really hurt his image almost irrevocably I think - which is sad considering how good I think he could be doing.

Quote from Urban

hey, i liked that scream.. made a good sound byte for talk radio for those who havent heard it... here

hes so in-touch with the common man

And for those of you who would like a more festive party mix of the Scream Heard 'Round the World, get it here.

Yeah, and having a dad who was president, head of the CIA, and consulate to Japan makes you a regular run-of-the-mill, good-ol-boy, down-home, everyman. Come on

I like you Insta.

Quote from Urban

edit: http://%7boption%7d WTF!~

WTF indeed. That's royally fucked up.

In all fairness, Bush supporters have done equally evil shit. On I35 around here a guy was driving some economy car shitwagon with an anti-Bush bumpersticker and a large SUV ran him off the road into a construction area while honking and flipping him off. The judge that handled the case fined them both because he said that the bumpersticker was "meant to encite the public and that he should be more careful in the future." Furthermore, I've noticed all over Dallas various forms of defacement of Democratic signage. From kicked down signs to completely destroyed or burned ones.

Both sides are getting a little too damned overzealous.