They Wonder Why People Don't Make PC Games Any More

I hear similar things from Crytek (comparison between users playing Cryisis online and actual sales). What astounds me more than how many people are pirating the games is how poor copy protection stills seems to be today.

come on guys. you never pirated games? serious! i remember having a copy of hl1 and a keygen that allowed me to play on WON. some day my CD broke and there was this special offer where you get TFC and HL1 for like 40 euro (yeah thats like 2000 or 1999) and i finally bought it since it was such a great game.

but to be honest: i dont regret the pirating since most of those games were shitty. take tomb raider 3 for example. i didnt even play it through. i didnt even tomb raider 2 even i got the original. so the formula goes like: motivate people to buy a game and much more important MAKE GAMES THAT ARE FUN

crysis got nice graphics but i hear from several places that the game itself isnt that outstanding. so why should someone pay lots of money to not play the game through?

oh btw: didnt we have this topic like last year? those evergreens...

Quote from Pericolos0

ofcourse crysis didnt sell well. It doesnt run properly on most computers, people would rather pirate it just so they didnt waste any money. You have the hugest market of gamers out there and you make a game that only maybe 1% of the market can play it the way its meant to be. When will pc developers get that you should make games that run well on any PC and are fun? Atleast blizzard and valve get this.

It has to be done to progress to the next level. Crytek have developed a solid engine with foresight that has guaranteed a long lifespan. Neither HL2 or Doom3 ran well on my average system at the time of their release though they have faired well with time and can still be found under the hood of games today.

Piracy always has, and always will be an issue though it can be minimised. Any software that requires connection to an online system to operate should be relatively easy to protect.

Another issue is the cost of new games, typically $80-$100aus for PC, $100-$110 for PS3 or 360. I'm fortunate enough to have a disposable income and would modestly guess I spend around 1000 a year on games though i still check stuff out before I buy. How much of this money is going to middleman? Lower the cost to something a typical gamer (teenage male??) could reasonably afford and watch the number of legitimate copies sold increase.

Titles on Steam are very reasonably priced and it's so convenient I now purchase more stuff through it than I do from traditional game stores.

I personally see pirating as something reasonable when you're in school/college as games are relatively expensive, but once you're out of your teens and have a job it's time to grow up and start paying for your shit, regardless of whether or not it might be a bit crap. Almost all games have demos, including Crysis, so there's no excuse for not getting the demo and seeing how it runs/plays/etc.

Anyone who's past their teens and still pirates games needs to grow the fuck up IMO. Try the demos and/or read reviews before buying -- it's not hard, and it's how consumers of most other industries buy stuff. For example if you're buying a kettle and want to know how fast it boils and such, just ask the shop for a demo and read some reviews (online, kitchen magazines, etc) about it.

Unless you've got a seriously wank job it's not difficult to pay for one or two games per month, if that. You just have to get into the habit of doing it and decide you're going to start helping the PC platform instead of killing it.

The most amusing part for me is that when a game like BioShock finally comes along with some solid anti-piracy measures, all the people who've been pirating games for years start getting on their high horses and saying that's why they pirate them! As if somehow games starting to stop them is justification for doing it for all those years, and a reason to carry on doing it -- even though the games have only started doing it because of their piracy. Absolutely fucking hilarious.

Wow, I didn't even say that I'm surprised that so many people pirate games or that I've never played any pirated copies, read it again, I just mention "Crysis" and you guys go totally off.

What shocks me most is that you talk so openly about pirating and how "the game developers don't deserve any money from you" because you didn't have any "fun". Or maybe just a little, but defnitely not enough to pay them?

That attitude really sucks guys and I didn't expect that from people who work in a games studio or aspire to do something game related in the future. Which copy of Crysis did you play Hessi? The one you got from Crytek at the release party as a gift? At least you didn't download it then, way to go...well, I don't wanna make this personal. But if you know the people (or better yet if you are one of the people) who have spent so much time and effort to build something and people steal it just to bash it afterwards, well, it hurts. And this isn't about Crysis, ask Mazy, ask the GBX folks, or the people from IW.

Trying a game is what demos are for, either you buy the game afterwards or you leave it. I think pirating a game and buying the title afterwards is better than not paying at all, but still definitely the right way. At least by my definition, but maybe I'm the only one here.

Edit: With Thrik

well friechamp, some games really don't deserve any money (need for speed pro street ????) but some really do, for example world in conflict, call of duty 4 and off course orange pack.

valve made a very good job bringing the orange box, it is totally worth the 50 euro's i paid for it. I have played a pirated copy of CoD4 (Single player only), planning to buy the game if it gets cheaper then 50 euro.

Quote from Gorion

well friechamp, some games really don't deserve any money (need for speed pro street ????) but some really do, for example world in conflict, call of duty 4 and off course orange pack.valve made a very good job bringing the orange box, it is totally worth the 50 euro's i paid for it. I have played a pirated copy of CoD4 (Single player only), planning to buy the game if it gets cheaper then 50 euro.

But don't you realize that all this is entirely subjective? If you don't think that a game is worth its money then don't play it, simple as that!

It's still dissapointing to hear people on mapcore openly talk about pirating games, even if they then say the bought the game after playing a pirated copy. I know not all of us have jobs etc but I gotta say it's really lame to be a member of mapcore and (1) pirate games and (2) openly talk about how it's no big deal. It just contributes to the idea that people in game development get less income for busting their assess off. One pirated game by one person may seem like not a big deal, but when 10,000 people do it for one game, 100,000 people...it to add up. Everyone makes a difference.

So much bullshit in this thread it makes me sick.

not to defend anything here, but here are some thaughts:

- games are WAY too expensive. 65$ for a game is just insane. the status of a legit, regular gamer nowadays is something that only a working class person can maintain. thats not fair. i ger more hours of fun reading a 10$ book then playing a 65$ game. but maybe im a slow reader.

- there's ALOT of money going on in the gamebusyness. induvidual game artists dont get their honest share. why should induvidual gamedevs defend overpayed managers and producers salaries?

- he that is without sin castet the first stone, am i right?

- the standards atm around pirating games are not equal to stealing. maybe it should be brought back to this, but on the other hand, arent corporates stealing from the consumer with idiotic high pricing?

- if you want to know the source of the reason people pirate games, dont create a taboo around it, create dialog.

i know that you have put a lot of effort into the game, but if i look back: i also wasted so much money on crappy games that the industry owes me! visually i think crysis is far the best island game i have ever SEEN. but when i buy a game the graphics is what matters much less then fun. the gameindustry hasnt noticed yet that games need to change dramatically. we have seen the same shit over and over again. i can give a list of things i dislike at current games

- too complex menus because the game designers wanted to go super awesome and let the player to so many things

- too hard games where you got to load a savegame over and over to finally make it. savegames should be made for saving a progress in a situation where you have to turn off the game. like a book. a book where you have to read the same page like 100 times you dont finish. and you call it a shitload of fuck. a book should be read smoothly in a rush. so do games. and most fail horribly.

considering a debate on demos vs. pirated games:

both suck big time, but i'd prefer a pirated copy since i want to judge a game from the complete basis. not only a 10 minute extract. you cant judge a book or movie from just spending 10 minutes on it. the best solution to this problem comes from valve: those free weekends are genious. you can legally check out as much stuff as you want. and if you want to continue palying, you can buy the damn piece. thats how things should be done.

those who know me closer from real life know me saying "Kein Applaus für Scheisse".

To get my points in a propper perspective: the last game i pirated was "the guild 2" since i worked on the damn game and didnt even get a free copy. though the game was shit and they had lots of spare copies in the stores. thats about 1 year ago. meanwhile i purchased the following games:

fable

fable lost chapters

conker

max payne 2

overlord

viva pinata

kameo

call of duty 3

bioshock

lego star wars

burnout revenge

super paper mario

psychonauts

probably even more. so thats AT LEAST a 1:12 ratio.

the point is: i dont have money to waste. so i take all possibilities to evaluate those how deserve it. i don't want to ruin those who work hard, but i don't want them to think that the stuff they do is good if it isnt. i'd go so far to "force" people quit jobs at crappy studios since they kind of support shitty games from being produced and support stupid game designers that still live in 1985.

nintendo is on the right path. they got an innovative console and a different and interesting system that doesnt even allow the developers to focus on graphics. if a Wii developer wants to make a graphically top notch game he will fail compared to PC or PS3 games. so nintendo drew a line where every developer has to be more creative in a fun/game domain.

mostly all of us work in a graphics department. probably it would be usefull for the next years to put our self on the list of those who failed making good games.

Hm... usually I tend to be a hypocrit on this topic (like probably everyone else) but I just realised that it must be years since I played a warez'd game. But its very simple: You pirate games because you can (and it saves you ~50€/$). You can't beat that with morality.

I used to pirate. I think we can all remember that.

Quote

- games are WAY too expensive. 65$ for a game is just insane. the status of a legit, regular gamer nowadays is something that only a working class person can maintain. thats not fair. i ger more hours of fun reading a 10$ book then playing a 65$ game. but maybe im a slow reader.

Uh... wow. 135 francs for a game? And I thought games in Switzerland were expensive.

the current price of CoD4 in our gamestores is @ $75.

Some of these comments here are so ignorant, I can't even begin to put it into words. I will attempt to say a thing or two.

KT:

Point 1: People don't seem to have a problem buying eight million copies of Halo 3 at $60 a pop, or 10 million copies of WoW + $15/Mo subscription fees. It just takes the right game to draw someone's attention.

Point 2: Some companies DO provide royalties directly back at the developers, so they have every right to defend this.

Point 4: (I skipped your 3) Have you ever seen this warning before movies start up?

[Blocked Image: http://mike.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/fbiwarning.jpg]

Folks like yourself should be tracked and prosecuted similar to RIAA crackdowns.

Hessi:

Why are you wasting money on crappy games? Do you read reviews? One can even learn great lessons from playing not-so-good games, where you can easily point out, "oh, if they had done this it would have been so much better." Of course there is a point where a game is just so bad that there's no point in experiencing it.

Quote from hessi

both suck big time, but i'd prefer a pirated copy since i want to judge a game from the complete basis. not only a 10 minute extract. you cant judge a book or movie from just spending 10 minutes on it. the best solution to this problem comes from valve: those free weekends are genious. you can legally check out as much stuff as you want. and if you want to continue palying, you can buy the damn piece. thats how things should be done.

But you don't get to legally watch an entire book or movie unless it's in your local library or you wait until it's on television. Just like with games, you can usually get a very small glimpse (trailer, blurb, etc) and then have to buy it for the rest. Games cost more than both, but that's because they last a proportionate amount longer. It doesn't mean you can't do some basic review/demo research to get an idea of whether or not you'll like it. You're not fucking entitled to try out every game in full to decide if you like it, and then give the developers some money if you feel they deserve it. It's a product. Good and sucky products exist in every industry, but you're not entitled to just have them all.

Valve's weekends are a good idea, but they don't apply to the concept of single-player games very well. While some people (mostly on MapCore) are decent people and will buy something if they enjoy it even after completing it, most people won't. You start letting people play full single-player games for a weekend and they'll just all go on a binge during that weekend, finish the game, and then never return to it again.

As far as I'm concerned there is no valid argument for pirating games. I have absolute confidence that I can smash apart any and all arguments you throw at me. The simple fact of the matter is that anyone with a job has no excuse to be pirating games, and those who're younger can wait for their birthdays/etc and ask for one instead of a toy or whatever (they cost about the same) if you're a lazy fuck not willing to get a paper round or something.

I recommend that those MapCore members who pirate games just keep quiet about it and don't even attempt to justify it in this thread. All you're going to do is piss off those industry members who work hard on these games, and make people like me waste time pointing out why your arguments are flawed on every level.

Algor, im not picking any fights here. calm down, and read the whole discussion before your start throwing mud at somebody.