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Silicon Knights sues Epic Games

  • aevirex
  • July 20, 2007 at 8:35 AM
  • FMPONE
    • July 23, 2007 at 6:35 PM
    • #41

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  • Thrik
    • July 24, 2007 at 12:51 PM
    • #42

    ShackNews has commendably done the obvious and gotten in touch with a bunch of developers, some of whom chose to remain anonymous. It looks like SK isn't alone after all.

    http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=468

    As I suspected before, the reality is probably that the companies (or executives, rather) don't want to face the battle of a lawsuit. That does not mean the employees and developers aren't having a bad time with the software. In fact, even complaining about it and acting as a representative of the company would probably get them in trouble with their bosses, hence the anonymity.

    What, you think the directors of my company would sue Adobe because I and others in my team find some areas of Flash and Photoshop inhibitive to smooth development? Don't be crazy!

    That said, a lawsuit does seem a bit over the top. However, sometimes being over the top is the only way to force a neglectful company to wake up and pay attention. The lawsuit could end up being completely dropped as long as Epic sorts things out (although the risk of a counter-lawsuit is there, making this strategy a little dangerous).

  • Hourences
    • July 24, 2007 at 1:38 PM
    • #43

    Its all getting hyped up a little too much. The article is generally positive and whether or not some have problems still doesnt prove anything. Whether you create your own engine or license something, theres always going to be stuff that doesnt run well, doesnt work all too wel and just isnt finished yet. The obstacles are part of the game.

    Any developer who licensed an engine and thought none of that could happen to them is far off.

    I am not going to sue Autodesk either because my 3DsMax crashes 3 times a day. A frigging 8000 or something dollar expensive program and it occasionally corrupts my files, how messed up is that!

    Secondly I honestly believe a lot of developers just have not enough experience with the technology to know how to deal with it. Most developers are just into their very first project using the technology.

    I do contract work, I go by studios, I hear things, I see things, and the number of errors being made is sometimes enormous. This goes from wrong settings, wrong way of handling a problem, wrong use of the lighting features and so on. From what I hear of experienced Unreal programmers, the problem is just as bad with code. Messy code, badly optimized, wrong way of handling things and so on. Of all people complaining, I believe half of those created their own problems because of their inexperience.

  • KungFuSquirrel
    • July 24, 2007 at 4:49 PM
    • #44

    One thing to keep in mind through all of this, as everyone seems to have comment or a friend working on UE3 all of a sudden, is that finding developers that bitch about the engine they work on is like finding a needle in a stack of needles.

    This is not to say that SK is automatically without merit, but a bunch of developers on the internet complaining about UE3 doesn't suddenly mean it's sub-par inferior tech. Coming just recently from D3 tech, I'm basking in the glory of the best support I've ever seen (even though I miss certain elements that D3 did really well), while there's probably people who have been with Unreal for a while eagerly looking at the latest updates to Source or highly interested in id tech 5.

    Hell, Epic doesn't check uncompiled code into your branch, take your code and submit it to competitors (unless you offer a code solution to them, in which case they sometimes will include it officially), change the entire collision system 2 weeks before you go gold, or randomly re-do the item layouts in your MP maps resulting in online lynchings. What's not to love?

  • FrieChamp
    • August 10, 2007 at 9:51 AM
    • #45

    The Epic strikes back:

    Quote

    Silicon Knights wants to take Epic's Licensed Technology, pay nothing for it, and use it any way it pleases," the counter-motion reads. "Having exploited Epic's intellectual property to its advantage, Silicon Knights now seeks to renege on its payment obligations under the License Agreement. It is Silicon Knights, not Epic, that has engaged in deceit, infringement of Epic's intellectual property rights, breach of contract, and unfair business practices

    http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48371

  • Bl1tz
    • August 23, 2007 at 8:01 PM
    • #46

    http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?ar ... 905&page=2

    Is Mark Rein reading mapcore?

    Mark Rein: We deliver fantastic support. You just need to talk to our licensees. You can talk to Gearbox - I read a post yesterday that a Gearbox guy had actually said on a completely independent forum about how good our support is, and we have great documentation, we bend over backwards to answer questions for our licensees, a lot of times we have this whole community support where licensees are helping each other - that is a fantastic feature, that is really great, and what the Gearbox guys say is they get back way more than they give. The quality of our support is very much how much you use it and how much you put into it.

    Hi Mark.

  • Sindwiller
    • August 23, 2007 at 8:22 PM
    • #47

    Hello.

  • Defrag
    • August 24, 2007 at 12:08 AM
    • #48
    Quote

    One thing to keep in mind through all of this, as everyone seems to have comment or a friend working on UE3 all of a sudden, is that finding developers that bitch about the engine they work on is like finding a needle in a stack of needles.

    I think that's a very good point. Even when modding, I'm up on my soapbox bitterly complaining about a free SDK. God knows what I'd be like if I was paying for it

  • Furyo
    • August 24, 2007 at 12:16 AM
    • #49

    Defrag, you need to talk to some of the guys on the team here

    Typical OMG VALVE SUCKKKSSSS !!!!1111!!!

    Typical me: "yeah at least they get their features to work...."

  • Fletch
    • August 24, 2007 at 4:46 PM
    • #50
    Quote from Defrag

    I think that's a very good point. Even when modding, I'm up on my soapbox bitterly complaining about a free SDK. God knows what I'd be like if I was paying for it

    I'll be honest. UE3 crashes on me at least once a day. Some of that is our fault for stuff we've put in. Some of it is Epic's. BUT! I'm fine with it. Sure, it's annoying, but I've got autosaves and source control to backup my shit, and the ease and power of the overall workflow more than make up for the little problems.

    That being said, it will be interesting to see how the mod community responds to the new tools, because it's a huge jump in complexity for almost everything. It's like throwing modders into the deep end with weights tied to their ankles.

  • Defrag
    • August 24, 2007 at 8:40 PM
    • #51

    Even if it's more complicated than the engines people are modding at the moment, I'm sure the increases in workflow / productivity will more than make up for it.

    If I have to put in a lot of effort to learn something that will ultimately boost my productivity in the long-term, it's something I am happy to do. I feel like, at the moment, a lot of modders are using SDKs that force them to 'muddle though'. You get there in the end, but waste a lot of hours on the way to achieving your goal.

    If I have to spend 20 hours learning a tool to a standard where I can do stuff and then that tool saves me 50 hours over the course of a couple of months, that's absolutely fine with me. That's significantly better than learning a tool that takes a couple of hours to get the basics down, but costs you countless hours over the course of a month due to 'muddling through'.

    I suppose the only danger is that when you have to learn multiple new tools to get the job done (e.g. someone who models, maps & textures may need to learn all of that stuff simultaneously which may be a big hump to get over in the early days), or someone who is relatively new to modding gets put off because the learning curve is too steep before they can actually achieve something.

    Maybe modding will just get a bit more hardcore but more productive with these sorts of tools, or maybe it will die on its arse. I dunno which. I know certain companies (including valve) now hire people solely to deal with their SDK & interacting with modders, but I fear it shan't be enough.

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