Also remember how old CSS is now these days, its what 2-3 years old now?
Anyho, you don't need two maps, that is overkill. If you really have to use a map that big then make it one, the engine loader will thank you.
The models not that complex so I don't know why it isnt on a 1024? Then again my UV mapping skills are very rough at the moment.
Agreed, Defrag. And lol @ 'completely prove you wrong' 
The CSS textures are fine for what they do - the next time you notice yourself, in the middle of a game (with other people in the server..), staring at the gun I will give you a cookie. It's even a rifle that you spend 50% of your time using it looking through the scope, and 40% of the time with your pistol out after quick-switching. It's all relative, frankly, and if you can't make important decisions based on the gameplay potential then, unlucky.
More to the point the gs3g1 is SMALLER than the AWP and they still needed to use a larger map. Wasteful in my opinion, and unprofessional.
They undoubtedly had a reason for that to happen, don't call VALVe unprofessional please.
I've never once played CS:S and thought my gun was blurry/ugly so I don't think your assertion that it's very noticeable holds. It is noticeable if you specifically look for it
Well I do notice it so my assertion still holds, you just disagree with it. You could say "it only looks blurry if you look at it" about practically anything - it's noticable because the gun texture looks blurry. That's that.
Also remember how old CSS is now these days, its what 2-3 years old now?
2 and about 10 months, I think. Assuming it was December. I'm not complaining about Valve if that's what you're getting at - I'm saying that since they were using some 2048X1024's in a game that old it's common sense that it would be used more now. Considering how most/a lot more people are running on 256mb cards now.
Agreed, Defrag. And lol @ 'completely prove you wrong'The CSS textures are fine for what they do - the next time you notice yourself, in the middle of a game (with other people in the server..), staring at the gun I will give you a cookie. It's even a rifle that you spend 50% of your time using it looking through the scope, and 40% of the time with your pistol out after quick-switching. It's all relative, frankly, and if you can't make important decisions based on the gameplay potential then, unlucky.
More to the point the gs3g1 is SMALLER than the AWP and they still needed to use a larger map. Wasteful in my opinion, and unprofessional.
lol@quite clear proof? 
I think saying that "oh you don't spend your time looking at it" is rather flawed - whether it's the focus of the entire game or not blurry textures are quite noticable and I'm certainly not the only person to think this - pop over to a custom site like CDG or FPS Banana and start claiming that the default textures are defined enough. The response won't exactly be positive. The AWP isn't the only weapon, I was using it as an example. If you can't realize that taking screenshots of every single weapon would be a complete bore for me, not to mention a waste of time, then unlucky.
Also, the AWP looks horrible, and the G3 looks nice. Not unprofessional at all. The G3 and Sig550 were improved since their original versions. This image of the M4 also shows how blurry the textures are - take, for example, the back of the carrying handle. I mean, if you're saying that's fine then I don't know what recent games you're playing.
Of course, we shouldn't use it on the things that are in the player's face 100% of the time, we should use it on things like shoving normal maps and coloured spec. maps on things the player runs past. I've been such a fool. 
They undoubtedly had a reason for that to happen, don't call VALVe unprofessional please.
I was actually referring to what I thought was custom content. Funnily enough I never went through the gcf until now just to check. Frankly I can't remember the last time I looked at the gs3g1 or even used it.
But all your your arguements (@ snipa) are based on a presumption that I was complaining about texture sizes from the beginning - I made a comment that there was no need for two seperate maps when you could just use one - I didn't say he should try and squeeze it all onto a 1024x512 did I?
Also, I look at weapon models when playing but I don't sit there eying the detail of the pixels when I am playing the game - which is what most of the CSS players do: they play the game. The gun is at such an angle that you're hardly going to notice the details you pointed out - or they are in such a place that your eye won't naturally flow to during regular play.
SO whatever, I think my comment that "you don't look at it so it doesn't matter" stands up or the guns wouldn't be missing their backfaces.
What are you arguing for anyway? The fact that valve or TR should be using massive texture sheets just because they can? Or are you just trying to prove me wrong about something I didn't say?
You: Bitmap, you used a texture size that's been used in games over 2 years old. You don't need to scale it down at all, although it'd be easier on a single 204X1024 next time.
Me several posts earlier: I don't understand the need for two maps, it's just more to load and it's unnecessary.
Quote from SnipaMastaOf course, we shouldn't use it on the things that are in the player's face 100% of the time, we should use it on things like shoving normal maps and coloured spec. maps on things the player runs past. I've been such a fool.
or normal and spec maps on the guns 
Just addition: If some CSS gun skins (ie AWP) would really be an issue for players, VALVe would have changed them arleady so I guess players doesn't care too much about it, or haven't noticed the diference.
valve don't care about the players
Just addition: If some CSS gun skins (ie AWP) would really be an issue for players, VALVe would have changed them arleady so I guess players doesn't care too much about it, or haven't noticed the diference.
Quite simply: "wtf?" Valve aren't going to redo guns because technology has changed. The AWP was fine upon release (possibly), it isn't now - that's just what happens with old games. Graphics date.
But all your your arguements (@ snipa) are based on a presumption that I was complaining about texture sizes from the beginning - I made a comment that there was no need for two seperate maps when you could just use one - I didn't say he should try and squeeze it all onto a 1024x512 did I?Also, I look at weapon models when playing but I don't sit there eying the detail of the pixels when I am playing the game - which is what most of the CSS players do: they play the game. The gun is at such an angle that you're hardly going to notice the details you pointed out - or they are in such a place that your eye won't naturally flow to during regular play.
SO whatever, I think my comment that "you don't look at it so it doesn't matter" stands up or the guns wouldn't be missing their backfaces.
What are you arguing for anyway? The fact that valve or TR should be using massive texture sheets just because they can? Or are you just trying to prove me wrong about something I didn't say?
You missed the post where you were critisising me suggesting to use higher resolution maps, and I quoted it and argued against what you had said in that post. And your second paragraph is about it, too - so don't say you weren't making a point about it. I pointed out that the back of the carrying handle is noticeably blurry, and I showed a screenshot of the game that proves that the angle hardly covers up the fact. So no, your comment doesn't really stand up. Clearly people DO look at the guns, otherwise there wouldn't be so many custom weapons.
Also, as I said, it's not "just because they can", it's because it's in constant view of the player and needs attention to detail. Especially in mods where people are looking at the new guns a lot saying "hey, that's a nice looking gun", rather than "hey, that doesn't really look amazing". It's also interesting to note that despite you saying that you're arguing the point "I don't understand the need for two maps, it's just more to load and it's unnecessary.", your last post said NOTHING of that.
Let's all take a deep breath.
No need to rework anything, weren't the main problem the resolution? So don't You think that VALVe works on higher resolutions than those that we get ingame (like most artists does)? They surely do and they could easily switch to awp to 2048x1024 if players would complain it's "so blurry" ... no WTF here.
EDIT: VALVe tend to improve their titles even years after release, also keep in mind that CSS is not SP game, so players play it all over so I'm pretty damn sure that they would change the texture res if that'd be problem for whole lot of css players.
Also, I guess You should both calm down tbh.
jesus christ, ok larger res maps look sweet and technology and capabilities have changed, some guns look blurry if you look closely.
Larger maps are good for most people, more maps for a single gun are unneeded because of the overheads required to load them.
The DPB gun had two large maps when a single map would have sufficed 
Conversation over 
No need to rework anything, weren't the main problem the resolution? So don't You think that VALVe works on higher resolutions than those that we get ingame (like most artists does)? They surely do and they could easily switch to awp to 2048x1024 if players would complain it's "so blurry" ... no WTF here.EDIT: VALVe tend to improve their titles even years after release, also keep in mind that CSS is not SP game, so players play it all over so I'm pretty damn sure that they would change the texture res if that'd be problem for whole lot of css players.
Also, I guess You should both calm down tbh.
There's no personal insults flying about and it seems at least relatively on-topic (this is a model forum, after all).
Not all artists work at higher resolutions. I doubt most do for anything except world maps - maybe. Etc.
Also, dated graphics isn't a "problem". The only things they've done is fixed bugs, added some minor features, and make new maps - they're not going to rework all the art just because it's a bit blurry. I'm not saying that it's a problem for an older game, I'm saying it's a problem for a new game - especially a mod where first impressions are important.
Rick, at no point did I ever disagree with that statement. You even quoted me saying as such, remember?
feel free to continue in here
EDIT: Why is this thread titled 'idiots arguing'? Difference of opinion without actual belittlement hardly makes those involved idiots. Surely it wasn't the mods that renamed the title of this thread? Let's give Bitmap some respect and keep things on track here. This is a community of artists and designers after all and without a difference of opinion all of our work would be the same and no one would be able to help anyone else.
Original reply before I realized the ridiculous thread title:
Well, you guys noticed his high-res textures and ran with it: I'll give you that.
How about we actually look at his work and forget about what size is better?
My friend, Bitmap, using 2048x1024 is texture space is completely fine IF (!!!) you are going to utilize this large space to its fullest. In the case of this gun, I do not think you have. For a gun such as this that may have seen a lot of action it should be a considerable amount more worn.
Things to consider:
I'd also think about lighting up the colours around there and increasing its specularity: The paint won't be nearly as shiny as the metal underneath that'd be revealed from constant usage.
Dried paint. This is a paintball gun after all. Visually, this gun would be a lot more interesting to look at if it had random colours of paint here and there that are either thin surface marks or thick caked in areas.
Proper surface details. Right now I barely see any indication as to what this gun would be made out of. Is it metal? Plastic? Rubber? Goo? What is is? You've got basic flat colours on top of basic flat colours with no real surface information.
People don't seem to understand the concept of time.
This thread gots perfect name.
haha I thought the same thing
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