TF2

Haha, superb. That could be used extremely effectively in maps like Well where the enemy he's making invincible could stand up on the upper levels while the medic stays safely out of sight.

The gameplay's definitely being modified, as from what I saw the Spy now gets to go temporarily invisible instead of being permanently disguised as an enemy. Whether this is an improvement or not is up for dispute, and I don't think that kind of thing gives the game more depth so much as simply changes the formula.

TF2 will probably be great as I said way earlier in this thread, but I think the removal of grenades will take a side of the game away that a lot of people will miss. Play CS:S? Imagine them taking out automatic weapons. Battlefield? Imagine them removing vehicles.

That's how frequently the various types of imaginative grenades were used by past players of TF. Battlefield and CS:S may still be great fun without those elements in place, but they sure wouldn't be as dynamic nor as varied in the long-term.

I hope I'm managing to make those of you who never played the older TF iterations see our perspective.

BTW I was being sincere when I asked what other additions to the play are in TF2. I'd actually like to know since I'll be getting it and love TF.

I think I remember reading that they removed the spy ability to feign death. Also, I think they dropped disguises in favor of turning completely invisible.

i hope they made backstab a 1 hit kill

Quote from Thrik

I'm only basing my knowledge of the grenade removal on what Taylor said so I'm not sure if the video was ambiguous about this or not.

The original article suggested they were just removing frag grenades because of spam, which is understandable when you think of things like Dustbowl which was just “throw grenades at the bottlenecks for 30 minutes” if you boil it right down. However later in the article they specifically mentioned Concussion Grenades as being the reason people play the Medic instead of the Scout. After this, the previous statement seemed to relate to all custom grenades. I found it kind of funny they talked about the Scout in regards to neglect and not one word on the Pyro.

The new abilities may fill the hole but removing something as core to the gameplay really is going to hurt a lot of migrating TFC players. I played concussion jump maps more than the actual game; it really was a fun skill to master and use.

The fact you can jump up the entire grid in height with 0 respawn time restocks every 20 meters is irrelevant really, it wasn’t intended but not exploitable since no official map is laid out for it to happen, it’s the same with pipe and rocket jump maps. You can get from the bottom left of the grid to the upper right in one quad damage detpack with invincibility, but on 2fort the chance for you to do this is relatively slim.

Quote from insta

I think I remember reading that they removed the spy ability to feign death. Also, I think they dropped disguises in favor of turning completely invisible.

Which the old Quakeworld TF could already do. Valve's just pushing these out as 'revolutionary new features'.

Whats funny is that on some other board i'm bashed for not sucking up to the face tech that's gonna 'save the game' lol. It will be a short-lived novelty that will get out of date in years and no one will look back on as if it were 'great', like XIII.

even if they remove grenades you know that someone will make a tf2-classic mod in about 6 hours with grenades readded

duke nukem forever. They don't waste their money on irrelevant presentation and they focus and shut up and work on their game. I like those guys even if they've been going at it for 10 years.

Quote from leileilol

duke nukem forever. They don't waste their money on irrelevant presentation and they focus and shut up and work on their game. I like those guys even if they've been going at it for 10 years.

Quote from leileilol

duke nukem forever. They don't waste their money on irrelevant presentation and they focus and shut up and work on their game. I like those guys even if they've been going at it for 10 years.

L0l

Quote from leileilol

Which the old Quakeworld TF could already do. Valve's just pushing these out as 'revolutionary new features'.

Whats funny is that on some other board i'm bashed for not sucking up to the face tech that's gonna 'save the game' lol. It will be a short-lived novelty that will get out of date in years and no one will look back on as if it were 'great', like XIII.

I don't think they are pushing it as revolutionary (the spy invisibility). I would bet my house on invisibility being brought back because feigning doesn't play nice with ragdolls.

Some problems have to be conquered when a ragdoll feign happens:

1. Ragdoll can't fall down somewhere that is not normally accessible to players, but it can't look goofy when blocked or it gives the game away

2. Ragdoll has to be able to get back up from an arbitrary position

3. Ragdoll has to be networked & accurate on all clients

4. Above step has to work AND not have any tell-tale signs that will make it obvious as a feigned spy. Any lag or jerkyness = easily identifiable as a networked object and thus a spy (all corpses are usually client objects as they have no effect on the game world).

So there's a whole host of challenges to conquer. It was probably just a lot easier to implement invisibility.

Might have been, but I think it was probably more to do with the whole diguise thing being crapola.

In an organised game everyone knew you’re a spy, and in a public server you got basically one opportunity to kill people before the defenders start shooting everyone coming within 10 feet of them because they know there's a spy (and this potential kill itself may be compromised because you’re given the name of the first person who sees you).

Quote from Pericolos0

haha holy shit lololei get out of your hole. TF2 is a fresh breath in fps and valve is doing some of the coolest game marketing iv'e ever seen for it. Can't wait to see facial animation like this in the game, i can really imagine it bringing more life to the game. You may not find it revolutionary but it is a really big step in realtime facial animation.

Marketing, not developing. In reality it's just a cartoony rehash of the same old game. This is the kind of stuff that makes the press wanky and makes games suck. Hello? We're making GAMES, not pixar feature films.

It's the same old tech, it's just more exaggerated in this case.

Obviously its a "rehash of the same old game", since it's Team Fortress. It's not like they'd change the base gameplay since people have formed a pretty good idea about how the game will play.

I think Valve are taking plenty of chances with the gameplay changes they've implemented so far, and it'll be interesting to see if old fans of TF will like them.

Rick_D: If you can show me a seamless, fully working implementation then great, but I'm not aware of many (any?) games that allow all of the things in my list to happen. I know certain games allow a ragdoll to get back up from an arbitrary position, but I don't know about the rest of that stuff.

Quote from Thrik

BTW I was being sincere when I asked what other additions to the play are in TF2. I'd actually like to know since I'll be getting it and love TF.

Scout's Doublejump

Such a big discussion about grenades, I played TFC 2 years and then switched to CS, in TFc the grenade became the most dangeroes weapon of a class.

Yes conc/grenadejumps were engine bugs as far as I know, the developers never tought to use it as a jump boost.

Just like the gravgun jumping thats used by those poeple playing hl2 in a hour.