Whats up with Sven-Co Op?

    Quote from Thrik

    ^^ Worst reply in the thread.

    Quote from MrH2o

    or does who only buy Ipods

    I really must’ve missed something when I played They Hunger, while it was undoubtedly an enjoyable and high standard mission pack, it wasn’t exactly dripping with atmospherics and fear. But for sake of argument lets say it was the malevolent spawn that crawled out of a teleportation pod opposite one that previous housed System Shock and Silent Hill – putting it through a better engine would’ve made it a better game, there’s no cap on immersion from graphics and sound for a horror game of all genres. I'm sure we all noticed a slight upgrade with the Resident Evil remake, for example.

    I play lots of games that are old; I like retro graphics and sprites make me hot. But Half-Life doesn’t have a charm to it when I look back at it - it looks dated. I've seen the same people do everything it did, better. It also doesn’t have the players anymore, and Sven Coop is a highly anticipated mod, they would make waves if they released it on source instead of tinkering with the Half-life 1 version. And lets be honest if they are going for polish it’s going to take an awful lot.

    Quote from Thrik

    ^^ Worst reply in the thread.

    Quote from teeluu

    but I think

    I guess you just beat me there when it's about the worst reply in the thread, or since when opinions have been stupid? What kind of opinion is the right one? Tell me and i'll post it, huh.

    EDIT: And really, Half-Life 3 will be out before SC is out for Source. If it really takes 3 years to "finish" the mod for HL engine, it might just take as much to get out something reasonable to Source, or am i missing something?

    Isn't it pratically one of the coders (Sniper...?) working on Sven Coop 3.5? - I haven't really checked since I've stopped visiting their forums for a long time. But if that's the case, he does have a life you know, which is far more important than working on a Mod. Maybe that is why it's taking such a long time.

    But if you feel you can help them release it quicker so they can work on the Source version, then go ahead and help them out. Really, just because you might possibly have a lot of freetime doesn't mean others do.

    Oh, and... "Why?" - Because they want to. Simple as.

    Yeah Sniper is pretty much alone on this. I ask now and then if he needs help with anything but I've done everything I can apparently - I think it's up to animators and modellers now.

    I've never really got into Sven Coop really, I played a few maps awhile ago when it wasn't as polished as it is now and just got bored very quickly.

    As for the debate over engines, well Source is without a doubt the superior engine that's obvious but at the same time to say something like 'making HL stuff is a waste of time' is stilly really. Making just about anything for Source is about three times as much work as it is for HL if you want it to look the mutt's nuts. Goldsource still hasn't been pushed to it's limits yet believe it or not, sure the recent Poke 646 Vendetta looks great but the engine's capable of much much more, you've just got to have the know how about these things.

    If HIT is anything to go by, working on HL material is pretty far from pointless...

    Well I still enjoy playing HL stuff, but since HL2 have been out for over 2 years and they even had the tools before anyone else, i really think they should focus on the Source version, no doubt about it. People are expecting more the Source version than the old HL one, i assume. It has to be a lot harder to find memebers to work with the older engine too.

    I wonder if anyone will even notice some update for HL mod if there will be many kick ass mods coming out for Source at the same time. Some hard core fans might be an exception of course. Personally, i probably wont bother to try the new version of SC when it comes out, but maybe it's just me.

    Thrik, i'm deeply sorry if my opinions aren't the same as yours. Maybe you should argue those accusations instead of just being an idiot. :roll:

    Quote from teeluu

    Well I still enjoy playing HL stuff, but since HL2 have been out for over 2 years and they even had the tools before anyone else, i really think they should focus on the Source version, no doubt about it. People are expecting more the Source version than the old HL one, i assume. It has to be a lot harder to find memebers to work with the older engine too. I wonder if anyone will even notice some update for HL mod if there will be many kick ass mods coming out for Source at the same time. Some hard core fans might be an exception of course. Personally, i probably wont bother to try the new version of SC when it comes out, but maybe it's just me.

    Thrik, i'm deeply sorry if my opinions aren't the same as yours. Maybe you should argue those accusations instead of just being an idiot. :roll:

    I don't think he was really criticizing your opinion. I think he was criticizing the fact that you didn't bother to read all the arguments before posting. We've been over pretty much everything you've said.

    And I'm pretty sure the SC team never really got access to the sdk tools before anyone else. I guess TeddyBear knows if they did or not.

    Yeah, Nih is right. Replying to a thread without reading the opinions and thoughts posted before is something that just rubs me the wrong way -- especially when you basically parrot things said towards the beginning that were debated later on. I wasn't trying to attack you.

    D3, I don't think it's silly. Didn't you used to want to work in the games industry as a mapper? How exactly are you ever going to achieve that if you're not willing to put in the "three times as much work" to keep up with the standards? As I said earlier, a lot of this unwilling to move on seems to stem from being unable to handle the extra detail requirements. A bunch of good looking maps on a nine-year-old engine might have impressed developers in 2003 (although still pushing it), but I seriously doubt they'll get you anywhere nowadays as the engine is simply incapable of looking as good as modern games, no matter how much those still working on it might want to believe otherwise.

    Sure, HL may still have some juice in it as far as squeezing visual quality goes, for Source has an immeasurably greater amount of potential. Why not put those hours into making a truly stunning Source map with superb optimisation rather than trying to make an outdated, obsolete engine look anywhere near as good as its modern counterparts?

    I know it's very tempting to say "Loads of people still play HL1 mods!", but the reality is that 98% of those exclusively play CS or DOD (addicted to the gameplay) and are incredibly unlikely to even check for let alone try new or other HL1 mods. I truly believe HL1's time has come, and if it weren't for CS and DOD still keeping a bunch of people around I believe nobody would argue with me.

    We got the SDK tools the same time as everyone else, don't know where you got that from teeluu.

    For me, even as a graphics artist, games like these are not about graphics or advanced technology. It's about having fun! As long as gameplay is pleasing, the age of the technology it applies is of lesser/non-existant matter

    I'd actually say you're narrow minded by essentially saying graphic quality is irrelevant.

    For a good analogy, why not routinely make films with 1950s technology instead of 2000s technology if the scripts are just as good?

    The answer is that the audience has gotten used to the modern standards of quality, and with the exception of older generations who grew up with the 1950s films, nobody is likely to enjoy it that much as it looks so disproportinately worse than everything else they're used to of the current day.

    Don't you guys even find that a lot of 80s and 90s movies look very outdated visually? Can you honestly say it doesn't lessen your immersion when the dinosaurs or whatever look a lot worse than they would today? Honestly?

    I appreciate the value of gameplay and atmosphere, but why can't they be developed with more recent technology? What I'm doing here is attacking the argument that there's still a very big HL1 player base for new/updated mods, not that it's impossible to make fun gameplay for an older engine.

    Quote from TeddyBear

    We got the SDK tools the same time as everyone else, don't know where you got that from teeluu.

    Quote from MrH2o

    I remember when i first heard about Sven-Co op for source, it was before HL2 was released and Valve was letting the creators using thier tools before anyone else could.

    So you guys are talking about how i didn't read all the posts and complaining about it, did you guys read the first post at all since you didn't know where i got that information from..

    Well ok, maybe my first post was kinda stupid, everything in that post was mentioned in the earlier posts, but it was still my opinion and i would've posted the same anyways, i thought they had the tools before anyone else, since it was told in the first post of the thread. Like i said, i enjoy playing HL stuff. I would love to get more new mods on it, still i consider it as somehow stupid, it wont get the same attention anymore unless it's something mind blowing, like Nightwatch was.

    Imo SC is a mod which should've got the Source version out already, soon someone else takes their place as the most popular mod with the same theme. Besides, like told in the thread before, Source has much more capabilities, SC for Source would be hell of a fun if done well. Working on the old engine has broken the team apart too, at least how i've understood it based on the earlier posts. Wouldn't it really be a time to move on Source engine

    Quote from Thrik

    I'd actually say you're narrow minded by essentially saying graphic quality is irrelevant.For a good analogy, why not routinely make films with 1950s technology instead of 2000s technology if the scripts are just as good?

    Well, I like how late 70's, 80's and 90's movies looked like. I like them much more than the ones made in this decade. All the Alien movies, Star Wars, Pulp Fiction, they're not ruined with all the fancy effects and so.

    Offtopic?

    There are of course classics that dodge classification, just like people can still play something like Monkey Island and enjoy it. What I meant was that while a lot of people today would be willing to go to the cinema or something and just take a risk on a modern movie, chances are they wouldn't if it were made using old technology and looked like something from a decade or more ago. When people get new stuff they expect it to look like it came from the era it was released.

    Just seems mental to me to invest the time in a much smaller audience and a much older engine when newer alternatives exist and masses desperate for high quality mods to hit newer engines like Source. People complain about the lack of a good mod scene in newer games, but why is that? Because people won't make the jump and get things started, that's why. The HL1 mod scene didn't happen overnight -- it took some dedicated individuals to make stuff like CS to inspire people.

    Hopefully Insurgency or something will serve that purpose with Source.

    Quote from Thrik

    I'd actually say you're narrow minded by essentially saying graphic quality is irrelevant.

    That's not entirely what I meant. Of course graphics play an important part in order to set the atmosphere of gameplay in general - to enhance the overall experience and so forth. I'm just saying that SC has essentially never revolved around cutting-edge graphics & technology, quite the opposite actually. It's a fun and simplistic game that I think would remain just as fun either using HL or Source technology.

    Quote from Thrik

    .D3, I don't think it's silly. Didn't you used to want to work in the games industry as a mapper? How exactly are you ever going to achieve that if you're not willing to put in the "three times as much work" to keep up with the standards? As I said earlier, a lot of this unwilling to move on seems to stem from being unable to handle the extra detail requirements. A bunch of good looking maps on a nine-year-old engine might have impressed developers in 2003 (although still pushing it), but I seriously doubt they'll get you anywhere nowadays as the engine is simply incapable of looking as good as modern games, no matter how much those still working on it might want to believe otherwise.

    Key word there is used to. I've got a couple of friends who work in the industry and having discussed things with them I've discovered that most employers are only bothered in what you can do presently as oppose to how much work you have to show, this can apply to any kind of technology be it the latest showcases or old, so long as you have the skills that can be used to aspects of game design. This doesn't apply to every employer out there, it's just their own personal experience, they reckon I could get a job if I wanted to, but I'd have to move out of Notts and I really don't want to do that right now so I'm not too fussed.

    Quote

    Sure, HL may still have some juice in it as far as squeezing visual quality goes, for Source has an immeasurably greater amount of potential. Why not put those hours into making a truly stunning Source map with superb optimisation rather than trying to make an outdated, obsolete engine look anywhere near as good as its modern counterparts?

    Because it's impressive? If you saw a map that looked like Source and smelled like source yet it was proven to be Goldsource, wouldn't you be impressed? I can see why you would think it pointless but at the same time I'm sure you can understand why, I mean doesn't Quakis's Build mansion look nice, yeah it'd look better on source or another modern engine but that's not the point.

    Quote

    I know it's very tempting to say "Loads of people still play HL1 mods!", but the reality is that 98% of those exclusively play CS or DOD (addicted to the gameplay) and are incredibly unlikely to even check for let alone try new or other HL1 mods. I truly believe HL1's time has come, and if it weren't for CS and DOD still keeping a bunch of people around I believe nobody would argue with me.

    Just like Doom's time has come, the same Doom that still has tonnes of maps and mods released almost each day...

    If you think HL's is 'dead' then you're mistaken, there's still plenty of people working on things. I'll make no arguements, Source is the daddy but HL still holds up well on it's own.

    I suggest you make a thread on HIT, see how many people disagree with you

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