Burnin the American flag

    Quote from RD

    Thats exactly why Harlem has been such a shitty hood for decades. You support the murder of anybody that wants to change it and confront the violence with words. You do this because you believe anybody that criticizes black ppl is a racist. Likewise you believe the same of anybody that criticizes religion. Dont you understand that the mere fact that its dangerous to protest against certain cultures, proves that it needs to be confronted with the year 2006?It is actually the contempt for your own race that blinds you from the truth [Blocked Image: https://migrationtest.mapcore.org/public/style_emoticons/default/mapcore_smilies/emot_shakehead.gif] In your eyes there is no such thing as valid criticism of other religions, cultures or races, but only your own right?

    You missed the point. Completely.

    Quote

    What does Dungeons & Dragons have to do with this?You know in Europe we had an open debate about this with over half a billion ppl. They all agreed that the freedom of speech should not be oppressed to satisfy a violent culture. It is retarded :roll:

    D&D = debate & discussion. No one ever said your speech should be curtailed to satisfy any culture, but you should probably step up to the plate and accept responsibility for your actions if they garner negative results. Understanding and dealing with a situation does not = being oppressed.

    Quote

    Who said anything about the government doing it? Trying to change the subject?

    This thread is about an ammendment proposed to ban flag burning. Are you retarded?

    Quote from The Postman

    D&D = debate & discussion. No one ever said your speech should be curtailed to satisfy any culture, but you should probably step up to the plate and accept responsibility for your actions if they garner negative results. Understanding and dealing with a situation does not = being oppressed.

    I dont think you even grasp what you are saying yourself. If you really believe what you just said, you wouldnt mind the entire US being like Harlem... having the freedoms that white ppl have in a black ghetto.

    Its nothing more than pretending, because you only talk like this because you dont live there and never have to deal with it.

    Your tactic of dealing with extremism has only made the situation explode globally. You just let it grow and then throw bombs on it [Blocked Image: https://migrationtest.mapcore.org/public/style_emoticons/default/mapcore_smilies/emot_shakehead.gif] Its not working matey [Blocked Image: https://migrationtest.mapcore.org/public/style_emoticons/default/mapcore_smilies/emot_shakehead.gif]

    If you meant what you said about accepting responsibility for intentionally pissing off violent ppl, then you got alot of death and destruction to accept.

    Quote from RD

    I dont think you even grasp what you are saying yourself. If you really believe what you just said, you wouldnt mind the entire US being like Harlem... having the freedoms that white ppl have in a black ghetto.Its nothing more than pretending, because you only talk like this because you dont live there and never have to deal with it.

    No RD, what I'm saying is "do what you will, wear what you'll wear, but accept the consequences of your actions." It absolves neither party but it recognizes the cause/effect of what goes on.

    Quote from RD

    Your tactic of dealing with extremism has only made the situation explode globally. You just let it grow and then throw bombs on it [Blocked Image: https://migrationtest.mapcore.org/public/style_emoticons/default/mapcore_smilies/emot_shakehead.gif] Its not working matey [Blocked Image: https://migrationtest.mapcore.org/public/style_emoticons/default/mapcore_smilies/emot_shakehead.gif]

    Right. Someone has little to no knowledge about what got the middle east to where it is today. That person is you.

    Quote from The Postman

    No RD, what I'm saying is "do what you will, wear what you'll wear, but accept the consequences of your actions." It absolves neither party but it recognizes the cause/effect of what goes on.

    Apparently you dont recognize the causes and effects, because you dont recognize there is a problem. You think violence is a normal and acceptable way of dealing with criticism? :roll: That violence is predictable doesnt mean its all righty

    Unfortunately for you, you live in the western world and its unlawful to assault or kill others for whatever reason other than self defense

    If you dont like your own laws and freedoms, why do you live there?

    Quote from RD

    Apparently you dont recognize the causes and effects, because you dont recognize there is a problem. You think violence is a normal and acceptable way of dealing with criticism? :roll: That violence is predictable doesnt mean its all righty

    Now you're just being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

    Quote from RD

    Unfortunately for you, you live in the western world and its unlawful to assault or kill others for whatever reason other than self defense

    Did I ever say it was legal or right? Re-read. Oh, and emoticons are not punctuation. I took the liberty of removing around a half dozen.

    Quote from The Postman

    Did I ever say it was legal or right? Re-read.

    Yes you did.

    Quote from The Postman

    how your country fucked up with cartoons

    Quote from The Postman

    you tools fucked up with that cartoon and its reprinting

    Quote from The Postman

    Yeah, if I wear a "FUCK read the rulesS" shirt in Harlem it's not my fault for choosing to wear the shirt, it's those unruly hoodlums' fault for beating the living shit out of me. Great logic. Avoiding responsibility for one's own actions is a great way to go about things.Why, I shouldn't be beheld to any laws because it's not my fault I did anything, it's simply the State's fault for getting upset that I did! They need to get over it.

    Quote from RD

    Yes you did.

    Never absolved anyone of their actions. I never said either was right or correct. Re-read.

    Either way this has gone way beyond whether or not flag burning should be legal and has gone into the realm of RD bitching about Islamic cartoons again. So unless you've got any new points or opinions on the subject of the proposed (and failed) US flag burning ban, then I consider the matter closed and myself the victor.

    Quote from The Postman

    Never absolved anyone of their actions. I never said either was right or correct. Re-read.

    You said its fucked up Its true you didnt say they were right, because it means they were wrong.

    Quote

    Either way this has gone way beyond whether or not flag burning should be legal and has gone into the realm of RD bitching about Islamic cartoons again. So unless you've got any new points or opinions on the subject of the proposed (and failed) US flag burning ban, then I consider the matter closed and myself the victor.

    I actually created this daring thread for it to evolve like it did. Its about the principles of freedom, and not the cloth. The thread has gone naturally to the weak points in your argument against the ban. Unfortunately you dont recognize this argument, simply because you hear the word Islam. I tried to just replace it with the word religion but then you thought i was talking about ufos.

    This is not about you or me Postman, but about something much bigger and more epic. In the end, the freedom of speech has won this argument. But between you and me, the jury of Kleinluka, Skjalg, Kokos, Pericolos0 and Killertomato have condemned you to losing.

    Quote from Ed Tempelton

    Even if someone wants to burn a flag, they still have to buy one. and that's good for the economy.

    Quote from RD

    You said its fucked up Its true you didnt say they were right, because it means they were wrong.

    Re-read. I said it fucked up. Not that it's fucked up. The handling of that cartoon on both sides was just an irresponsible shitstorm.

    Quote from RD

    I actually created this daring thread for it to evolve like it did. Its about the principles of freedom, and not the cloth. The thread has gone naturally to the weak points in your argument against the ban. Unfortunately you dont recognize this argument, simply because you hear the word Islam. I tried to just replace it with the word religion but then you thought i was talking about ufos.

    So, you were trolling. How are you a mod here, again?

    Quote from RD

    This is not about you or me Postman, but about something much bigger and more epic. In the end, the freedom of speech has won this argument. But between you and me, the jury of:

    Quote from RD

    Kleinluka,

    i can respect his art, but he's wrong here.

    Quote from RD

    Skjalg,

    idiot

    Quote from RD

    Kokos,

    idiot

    Quote from RD

    Pericolos0

    idiot

    Quote from RD

    Killertomato

    fucking idiotYeah, I forgot that having a majority opinion means that you've got the right opinion. Cheers!

    You forget that I'm pro-freedom of speech, but anti-stupidity and also pro-responsibility. There are lines of distinction there that you clearly don't understand.

    Quote from RD

    I am in favor of the freedom to burn all symbols, including your flag. But it is discriminative to yourself and all americans to only allow the burning of your own symbol. It is, in plain simpleness, a sign that your values are inferior to values that support violence to get respect. In even simpler terms: you admit that the freedom of speech is a logical fallacy. So you either ban it, because equal is still better than inferior, or you respect freedom.

    Btw your ad hominems are useless. Youre not arguing with me, your arguing with the freedom of speech

    Let me break this down to the basest level of American free speech law:

    Our government represent our citizens but our citizens may not necessarily represent our government. People in public positions are supposed to be representing the public. They're not acting in a civilian capacity, they're acting in a civilian capacity. As soon as Tom P. Official clocks in to work, he's not Tom P. Official. He's the ________ that represents all the American people.

    So while Denmark may have gotten fucked when the Islamic people decided that the actions of one paper represented the whole country, America doesn't operate in such an official manner. One person/paper/thing doesn't represent all of us unless they're acting in an official capacity.

    I read the cartoon thread, too. What Postman is arguing is that in an official capacity (what the soldiers were), we shouldn't burn religious symbols. If these soldiers were off-duty, they should be able to. We should certainly have the freedom to burn religious symbols (and we do) but there are irresponsible ways of exercising those freedoms.

    By allowing a constitutional amendment to get rid of flag burning, you're stripping a civilian of their right to show displeasure with their own nation. They can still burn religious symbols but now if they try to burn an American flag, they're committing a crime. So while they can commit racist speech on their own time, they can't speak against the country.

    Roger dodger, cowboy?

    Quote from Scraps

    Let me break this down to the basest level of American free speech law:

    Our government represent our citizens but our citizens may not necessarily represent our government. People in public positions are supposed to be representing the public. They're not acting in a civilian capacity, they're acting in a civilian capacity. As soon as Tom P. Official clocks in to work, he's not Tom P. Official. He's the ________ that represents all the American people.

    So while Denmark may have gotten fucked when the Islamic people decided that the actions of one paper represented the whole country, America doesn't operate in such an official manner. One person/paper/thing doesn't represent all of us unless they're acting in an official capacity.

    I read the cartoon thread, too. What Postman is arguing is that in an official capacity (what the soldiers were), we shouldn't burn religious symbols. If these soldiers were off-duty, they should be able to. We should certainly have the freedom to burn religious symbols (and we do) but there are irresponsible ways of exercising those freedoms.

    Not sure why youre explaining that ppl in official positions have to be more responsible, sport. Nobody in an official position burned any religious symbols or drew/printed any cartoons about religion, not even in Europe.

    Quote

    By allowing a constitutional amendment to get rid of flag burning, you're stripping a civilian of their right to show displeasure with their own nation. They can still burn religious symbols but now if they try to burn an American flag, they're committing a crime. So while they can commit racist speech on their own time, they can't speak against the country.Roger dodger, cowboy?

    Theres something you are forgetting. Criticizing a religion is neither racist nor discriminative. There is valid criticism on certain values that certain religions preach. You can close your eyes to its retarded values only up to a certain point: the point where it doesnt hurt other ppl For example that condoms are forbidden and letting a billion ppl die in Africa is retarded. But i guess in America, because christianity is your own religion, you close your eyes to it. Here in Europe we criticize such backwards values. Its ok to criticize the pope, its ok to criticize Jesus for what he said. It must be ok to criticize all leaders and prophets that ever spoke hatred of other cultures and races.

    Especially in the case of the cartoons, the violence following the publishing, prior to it and in other countries proved the cartoons to be a valid protest. When a religion goes out of control, you confront it with words, or you wipe it out like Waco.

    Besides all that, it is plain discriminative to compare all those that criticize religion to ppl that scream nice man in Harlem matey

    Quote from The Postman

    So, you were trolling. How are you a mod here, again?

    I did it to be constructive. Someone must reteach America what freedom really is

    Quote from RD

    I did it to be constructive.

    No, you're attempting to troll the forums. What you did was trolling. Plain and simple.

    Quote from RD

    Someone must reteach America what freedom really is

    We've tried. You either don't comprehend it or simply have a completely warped idea of it and refuse to listen to reason.

    Quote from RD

    Theres something you are forgetting. Criticizing a religion is neither racist nor discriminative. There is valid criticism on certain values that certain religions preach. You can close your eyes to its retarded values only up to a certain point: the point where it doesnt hurt other ppl For example that condoms are forbidden and letting a billion ppl die in Africa is retarded. But i guess in America, because christianity is your own religion, you close your eyes to it. Here in Europe we criticize such backwards values. Its ok to criticize the pope, its ok to criticize Jesus for what he said. It must be ok to criticize all leaders and prophets that ever spoke hatred of other cultures and races.

    Especially in the case of the cartoons, the violence following the publishing, prior to it and in other countries proved the cartoons to be a valid protest. When a religion goes out of control, you confront it with words, or you wipe it out like Waco.

    Besides all that, it is plain discriminative to compare all those that criticize religion to ppl that scream nice man in Harlem matey

    Wait. By supporting the freedom of Americans to criticize religion, I'm for free speech.

    But if I support the freedom of Americans to criticize their own government, I'm anti-free speech?

    Jesus christ, you're a nutsack.

    Quote from Scraps

    Wait. By supporting the freedom of Americans to criticize religion, I'm for free speech.

    But if I support the freedom of Americans to criticize their own government, I'm anti-free speech?

    Jesus christ, you're a nutsack.

    This is exactly the opposite of what i said in your quote.

    It is also a flipflop of what you said earlier. You now say you support the freedom to criticize religion, but you called it racism earlier, and racism is forbidden by your very own laws:

    Quote from Scraps

    They can still burn religious symbols but now if they try to burn an American flag, they're committing a crime. So while they can commit racist speech on their own time, they can't speak against the country

    I am in favor of the equal treatment of your flag to any other symbol. Postman is against this, and with your confusing flipflops im not sure what your stance is.

    Quote from RD

    This is exactly the opposite of what i said in your quote.

    It is also a flipflop of what you said earlier. You now say you support the freedom to criticize religion, but you called it racism earlier, and racism is forbidden by your very own laws:

    I am in favor of the equal treatment of your flag to any other symbol. Postman is against this, and with your confusing flipflops im not sure what your stance is.

    I believe this confusion stems from your inability to comprehend anything you read.

    There is no need to make things personal Scraps

    I feel misunderstood by you, so i added the special paragraph that summarizes the discussion.

    Quote

    I am in favor of the equal treatment of your flag to any other symbol. Postman is against this, and im not sure what your stance is

    Quote from RD

    I am in favor of the equal treatment of your flag to any other symbol. Postman is against this, and im not sure what your stance is

    And I'm against the government burning the Koran. I've stated this repeatedly. Honestly RD are you just trolling now or are you actually this stupid?

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