In war its interrogation, not torture you dumb U.N.!

Its torture no matter what situation.

It's torture no matter what. Cut the damned doublespeak out, Mawibse.

Come on, what you're saying is tantamount to shouting "WHY DON'T YOU LOVE AMERICA?" in response to a valid accusation.

Quote from mawibse

Perhaps the word torture is a bit misleading, we are talking about sleep deprivation, prolonged solitary confinement and force feeding of starvers, common "stress and duress" techniques. Not pulling fingernails or electric shocks!

Yeah, don't forget the getting naked and piling up in human pyramids, having bags taped over your head as people take pictures to send home to loved ones Good thing they were being interrogated.

Id rather have my nails pulled out than my mind dying of white noise and sleep deprivation

Quote from Fletch

Yeah, don't forget the getting naked and piling up in human pyramids, having bags taped over your head as people take pictures to send home to loved ones Good thing they were being interrogated.

Or being put into sleeping bags and subjected to extreme heat after a massive beating.

We don't torture though, nuh uh. Really. Serious here.

Quote from mawibse

That was wrong.But I was refering to Guantanamo Bay, not an incident in war zone where the guards got out of hand, whom has been punished for their actions btw.

I'm sure it's just a few bad apples, and not supported, documented procedure. :

Question for mawibse:

Have you been to Gitmo Bay?

What makes statements made by your opposition conjecture and your's true?

By the way, I'd like you to produce a credible source to back up your statement about the investigators being invited to Gitmo Bay and given access to the materials they needed. As far as I know of, no UN or human rights group has been allowed inside of the camp to do the necessary work to uncover the truth.

Note: a source other than the one used in the CNN article, ie. someone not biased towards their own cause (Richard Grenell).

I find it really sad that the government is attacking those who are looking out for the wellbeing of fellow human beings. Another example of the US government supporting a group when they support their position and casting them aside as crazies when they don't.

Ah, I just wanted to know what made you so sure you were right. Not so sure what makes your opinion more credible than the others voiced in this thread...?

Quote from mawibse

Well that sounds really tough n all but... I dont believe it for a second.

Ok maybe not, but those psychological tricks are just a little step down the ladder of horror

Mawibse, what would it take for you to admit that we torture people? We have documented videos of prisoner beatings, accounts of "renditioning" ( :roll: ) techniques that have killed prisoners, literally hundreds of photos from Abu Grahib and Gitmo, accusations by the EU of CIA run secret prisons in Poland (the irony of the placement is not lost on me). What does it take? The president admitting personally "We torture people, what are you gonna do about it? Ha!" I get the feeling then you'd simply justify it.

Quote from mawibse

A U.N. investigation has concluded that the United States committed acts amounting to torture at Guantanamo Bay.American officials said the most significant flaw of the report was that it judged U.S. treatment of detainees according to peacetime human rights laws. The United States contends it is in a state of conflict and should be judged according to the laws of war.

So torture is not torture when in a war?

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/02/13/un ... index.html

If we're in a war, how come they aren't accorded POW rights?

Quote from Scraps

If we're in a war, how come they aren't accorded POW rights?

Because we have an Att. Gen. that referred to the Geneva Conventions as "quaint."

Quote

Gonzales authored a controversial memo in January of 2002 that explored whether Article III of the Geneva Convention even applied to Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters captured in Afghanistan and held in concentration facilities around the world, including Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The memo made several arguments both for and against providing Article III protection to Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters. He concluded that Article III was outdated and ill-suited for dealing with captured Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters. He described as "quaint" the provisions that require providing captured Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters "commissary privileges, scrip, athletic uniforms, and scientific instruments". He also argued that existing military regulations and instructions from the President were more than adequate to ensure that the principles of the Geneva Convention would be applied. He also argued that undefined language in the Geneva Convention, such as "outrages upon personal dignity" and "inhuman treatment", could make officials and military leaders subject to the War Crimes Act of 1996 if mistreatment was discovered.

Quote from The Postman

Because we have an Att. Gen. that referred to the Geneva Conventions as "quaint."

Holy crap, that sounds like an answer to a relevant question. Are you sure that was Gonzales saying that? You must have caught him on the third week of the third month of a leap year because for as far as I know, he doesn't answer relevant questions.

Quote from Scraps

If we're in a war, how come they aren't accorded POW rights?

Technically, it's not a war, except everyone including Congress and the President calls it a war. So it isn't a war, but it is? See?

Yeah, I was and am just as confused.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a classic tale of treating your enemies with the respect you would want your own people to be treated by your enemy iif they happened to be captured. Seriously, POWs and those kidnapped in iIraq et al are just as deserving to life as everyone else, but I find it hard to give out sympathy to those policy-makers who deem it necessary to add fine print the legislation so they have a loophole big enough to torture people without consequence.

For being such Christian people, I fail to see why the White House still harbours not a good bone in their collective body.

Quote from mawibse

Nothing, if you think that sleep deprivation is torture then fine, then we torture.

But I'd like to point out that sleep deprivation is a long step from pulling fingernails and electro treatment to testicles, at least in my book.

Sleep deprivation AKA unlimited solitary confinement in rooms filled with strobing lights and white noise, naked, exposed to extreme heat and cold and chained in positions that are designed to cause maximum stress on the muscles . After 5 minutes you will wish they pulled your nails out. The only step down the ladder is there are no visible scars