The Firefight Project

All I'm saying is that the gameplay of Brothers in Arms fits directly into this criteria:

"Designing gameplay dynamics that support and perpetuate...

a) engagements that are significant and last

b) realworld tactics such as maneuvering around the battle field,

suppression fire, and flanking

c) the use of cover as an effective tool in combat (if you're behind

significant cover, but have a bit of a leg or something sticking out, the

odds of getting hit are fairly slim) "

The battles in Brothers in Arms lasted for a while, and it was tedious to say the least to pick any part of an enemies body off. So as far as your criteria is concerned, you are holding quite close to the Brothers in Arms gameplay model. Then again, you can see the difference between games like Brothers in Arms and Operation Flashpoint, but from my understanding you're planning on having this be a first-person shooter with squad command that includes the 4 Fs (Find, Fix, Flank, Finish).

Not that being like Brothers in Arms would be so bad, I personally thought both Road to Hill 30 and Earned in Blood were terrific, just that I find it odd that you would claim Brothers in Arms to be terrible and not be able to properly differenciate your project from it. What I said was that it sounded "like Brothers in Arms", correctly. Whether or not you do break new ground, what I take from your posts so far is that it IS very similar to the Brothers in Arms gameplay model, and whether or not you use a different squad command system the overall gameplay is going to be similar. Then again, it could be otherwise and I could just as easily be wrong/confused.

Either way, I didn't want to be a pest but you do have me intrigued and I'm wondering what model you plan to use that will not suffer from the same flaws as Brothers in Arms and other games do.

Your game might be nothing like Brothers in Arms, but the gameplay you've laid out so far will draw many comparisons, you had to have known that.

Quote from nervousquirrel

You're right. Very good point. I've been thinking about putting together a "Portfolio" of sorts to explain the points of our project. The only problem is deciding how to do that without making too much information available, and likewise by not making a site that is to vague. We'll figure that out, but thanks, you made an excellent point.

http://www.insmod.net/info.php

Reference the Insurgency Mod's info page for a successful way of doing that. That's been up for God knows how long, and it gives you a good rundown of what the mod is and isn't.

Frank say Hi to me.

You had me at hello, where can I sign up again to join.

hmmm interesting im starting to realize your gameplay a little better and the more i think about it the more interesting it sounds. But really your making your mod soley rely on the mappers. If the mappers have absolutly no clue what their doing then you mod is fucked. What I would percieve as a good map... is small but tactiful... something like what RD is working on in the level editing forums... Small and tactiful..though not appealing visually. I bet you jump right in the action and have a blast. I could see myself possibly making a small tactiful map for this mod in the future. But i dont see myself joining a mod anytime soon, exspecially one that has no existing content or code completed. Not throw down your mod its just that I have been on one to many mods that have died and my work has gone to waste. Or i just lose interest. I will be watching this mod and keep me informed of its progress because i might get lazy and stop checking.

I dont really see how you can focus so much more on flanking techniques than other firefight mods out there..

If you break it down, its just a strategy used in all Firefight games, when players actually team up that is, even CS.. and especially DOD...

Its not something you can implement via code, its something you can encourage with the map layout, yes, but thats already done in X number of mods. Saying you will focus on that gives me nothing, since i could just make a map for DOD focusing on that, and we'd have your mod in a map.

+ realistic modelbehaviour behind cover.. oh please.. everyone sais they'll have that..

I might've misunderstood badly tho, since my english understand sucks at times, but i wish you good luck with your project anyways Tho i wish people would start thinking outside the box instead of following the old modern WAR combat mod.

Quote from nervousquirrel

Consider this example: Tomb Raider was a great game. It was a very popular game for it's jumping puzzles and the like. Then came Prince of Persia: Sand of Time. Famous also, to an extent, for similar gameplay, but a completely different game. It was similar to Tomb Raider (BiA), but surpassed it and was essentially different from it (http://%7boption%7d). It did what Tomb Raider did better, and did so in totally different ways.

If you're that interested, hit me up. I'd love to discuss details with you. Btw, do you mod at all?

So then, no questions asked; Project FF will be better than BiA?

give him a break Algor.... I dont think he implied that, I think he was implying that his goal would be to fill in BiA's blanks and basically TRY to create a mod that would have more accurate and tactical firefights... ones that would be better and more intense than the "whoa look 2 more kruats behind a wall.. supressing team fire.. oh look their ducking... fire team go around the corner and kill them." I think he saying he is going to try to aid more "flare" and less repetitivness than BiA... Keyword in this post is TRY.

Quote from Crackerjack

give him a break Algor.... I dont think he implied that, I think he was implying that his goal would be to fill in BiA's blanks and basically TRY to create a mod that would have more accurate and tactical firefights... ones that would be better and more intense than the "whoa look 2 more kruats behind a wall.. supressing team fire.. oh look their ducking... fire team go around the corner and kill them." I think he saying he is going to try to aid more "flare" and less repetitivness than BiA... Keyword in this post is TRY.

It is easy to say "I'm going to improve this" and never say how. That is the question he needs to clear up.

I think we're jumping a bit down his throat here heh.

Here's what I think about this.

1) BiA showed people a new type of gameplay that I think people latched on to. I don't disagree there is tons of room for improvement in the game model. I don't disagree that people will use the lessons we've learned as good and strong building blocks... who wouldn't? That's the cookie crumbling of the industry. We're piggy backers (not that you necissarily are... but more of a broad generalization that also applies to us. Many things taught us what not to do in a WW2 game.)

2) Having just spent 17 hours in meeting after meeting about the future of BiA I can unequivacally say we're making strides that go far beyond people's gripes and proposed solutions for those gripes. This gives me a certain comfortablility when it comes to situations like this. You mentioned how BiA did something and how you intend to do it. It's a logical comparison because there is so few games that rely so heavily on tactics and suppression to enunciate their gameplay. Making a game on paper that solves these problems is much easier than putting it into practice, but that comes with going through the sweat of making the product. I hope it works out for you, it sounds like you're gonna try something cool.

Also, Mapcore has a notorious classifieds section. People wait in the wings to lambast whoever is brave enough to step up and ask for help. We (mapcore) are especially quick to jump down the throat of a modern combat mod because of our (mapcore) percieved oversaturation of the mod community. Which is sort of a shame because the more we tear all the mods down and hate the system, the less the system succeeds in the end. I don't hide the fact that if you work on a mod it should be to build a portfolio to get a job in the game industry at an established company (if your goal to to work in the industry someday that is.) Working on an established formula is an excellent way to accomplish this. Just let go of the dream of starting a mod and turning it into a huge success that segways into opening your own game studio. It's a completely unrealistic goal; and the success rate is completely spotty at best (the only real one having been closed down only a few months after it began THANKS EA!)

So don't let it get you down. People will either come around to what they think is a solid design or they won't. If they don't, go back to the design and make it work until they do.

-mike

p.s. insurgency is the bestest. now cracka looks silly because i edited my comment.

Very nicely put.. but i find what you said about us being a little short tempered when it comes to modern combat a little comical since there are a good number of members here that are on the Insurgency mod... heh what can you do though?

nervoussquirell, i will surely make a map for you guys.. because i have wanted to focus on a small and tactical level... but again, I would really like to see a good amount of progress in the mod before i start contributing my efforts.

Apologies, I suppose personal feelings got in the way.

And on second thought using other games or mods (although maybe solely for mod purposes) to use as comparison may be a good idea to help people put together a mental picture or what the game would be like.

nervousquirrel your concept for the mod sounds pretty ambitious. I loved BiA and Full Spectrum Warrior, but always thought they were too limited in making tactical choices and began to repeat the same situations. If you can manage to even make something as limited as BiA or Full Spectrum Warrior on Source, ill raise my hat to you.

I hope your concept doesn´t rely too much on the players just "wanting to play the game as it should be played". I mean there are players who don´t always want to take cover and end up just running around shooting shit. But I´m sure that will not be a huge issue. Anyways good luck. Competing with mods like Insurgency will be tough

What the fuck is this? I say one bad thing about WW2 mods and half of the core comes for my blood and someone comes here to introduce their mod that happens to be MC game and half the core are after his blood. I see bit biased view here if you don't mind me saying that.