Quote from FMPONE22 minutes ago, FMPONE said: Portable VR + great content is a killer app situation in my opinion.
You will run into a wall as nobody will buy full body for a killer app. They will buy full body for a metaverse though. A properly functioning metaverse is the killer app in my opinion.
Quote from Castle1 minute ago, Castle said: You will run into a wall as nobody will buy full body for a killer app. They will buy full body for a metaverse though. A properly functioning metaverse is the killer app in my opinion.
Full body VR? you're so far into the future, you're flying to work
Quote from FMPONE2 hours ago, FMPONE said: Full body VR? you're so far into the future, you're flying to work
Most people I know are full body these days. If you want to see for yourself let me know I can invite you to some events and such. My venue is pretty active. I actually think its a good idea for anyone who discusses the future of VR to check out this scene.
I also think VR will play more into the social aspect, having conversations with people, meetings etc with games like HLA being a side dish. Even if they get the cable out of the way, there's still the fact that it gives you motion sickness. It's cool, but it won't beat sitting on your couch with a controller in your hands.
Quote from Radu11 hours ago, Radu said: I also think VR will play more into the social aspect, having conversations with people, meetings etc with games like HLA being a side dish. Even if they get the cable out of the way, there's still the fact that it gives you motion sickness. It's cool, but it won't beat sitting on your couch with a controller in your hands.
If you have not gone out drinking with your friends while world hopping or chilling in front of a mirror you have not experienced VR. I cannot overstate how good the social aspect is. As far as playing games and such its not that amazing. In fact its kinda meh.
The social aspect is the draw while everything else is just icing. VR requires a hyper social metaverse. The fun thing about this is that I don't believe this is a super well known thing and most of the game industry is completely blind to it. This means that people who know now have a big advantage moving forward while even the biggest AAA giants are still scratching their heads.
@Castle please continue, I think everyone here is curious about how VR could develop.
Quote from Radu9 hours ago, Radu said: @Castle please continue, I think everyone here is curious about how VR could develop.
I am in an interesting situation now where I have been active with metaverse content creation for a few years. I noticed that player numbers have been exploding in the VR club scene recently so I decided to genuinely take it seriously and build a new venue of my own and fully apply my game dev experience. Up until recently its been a more casual thing but now its a full time job. I have learned an immense amount of stuff from how to design social worlds to the kinds of communities that exist and what they want. Its very closely linked to Discord right now so most discords have active communities within the metaverse. VRChat is the largest VR metaverse I am aware of but its not the only one. I have been pretty active regarding talking to devs of other metaverses such as Chill out VR and NEOS. I think I have over 3000 hours on VRC alone but I know people personally who basically live in VR and almost never leave, they sleep in VR.
The social experience of VR is insanely good, It feels like you are actually with your friends hanging out. Its the one thing VR provides that nothing else can compete. Social media cannot compete with the visceral feeling of chilling with friends in VR. If you are within any of the social circles around me now you will meet and talk to hundreds if not thousands of people within the first few months of playing, I am not kidding or exaggerating. Its hyper social to a point that I cannot even remember peoples names. My brain is at its limits and its been this way for awhile. I am an extremely social person as well. I have never experienced anything even close to this before.
---------------- Ok so with the above in mind this is why I say VR requires a hyper social metaverse archetype. Its the on thing VR provides that nothing else really can compete with. Games like Second Life were ahead of their time but its no where near the immersive experience of actually feeling like you are really there talking to people. Seeing people in full body and recognizing them because of their avatar in a night club is amazingly cool. And as we begin going down the rabbit hole of face tracking and improved development tools quality will improve at an exponential rate.
There is a lot of money in full body tracking. But it has almost no real application outside of a social environment.
There is a lot of money in facial tracking. But it has no real application outside of a social environment. (Facial tracking in VR with the right people is weaponized cuteness)
There is a lot of money in avatars and accessories. But these kinds of things are out of scope for anything but a social environment.
There is a lot of money in providing tactile senses while in VR. But something like this would barely be a gimmick for something like HLA but for a social platform it would probably disrupt the entire porn industry.
If you bullet point all of the cool advancements that are coming to VR you will quickly realize that its all best used in a highly social environment. People who are confused about VR ever being able to catch on right now or view it as a gimmick are simply missing the boat.
On another note : I was considering the idea of setting up a monthly game dev drink up at my venue. A VR gamedev drink up would pretty awesome I think. I think it would also be a good way to show and explain the stuff I am talking about.
Quote from Castle2 hours ago, Castle said: I know people personally who basically live in VR and almost never leave, they sleep in VR.
Not gonna lie, this has always been one of the concerns on the back of my mind, but I didn't expect it to happen any time soon. It's a bit scary actually.
But it's interesting to think about what you wrote overall.
Quote from Radu10 minutes ago, Radu said: Not gonna lie, this has always been one of the concerns on the back of my mind, but I didn't expect it to happen any time soon. It's a bit scary actually.
But it's interesting to think about what you wrote overall.
Yep, this is a thing and its been this way for a long time.
Alcoholism is also big in VR. I know multiple people who have suffered deteriorated health from over drinking. Its extremely common to have a live show or club event where people pass out in game. Your concerns are easily justified.
Quote from Castle1 hour ago, Castle said: Yep, this is a thing and its been this way for a long time.
Alcoholism is also big in VR. I know multiple people who have suffered deteriorated health from over drinking. Its extremely common to have a live show or club event where people pass out in game. Your concerns are easily justified.
What kind of age brackets are we talking about? I can't imagine you see a lot of people under 30 considering the hardware requirements?
I have an Index and it never crossed my mind to use it to be social lol
Quote from Buddy8 minutes ago, Buddy said: What kind of age brackets are we talking about? I can't imagine you see a lot of people under 30 considering the hardware requirements?
I have an Index and it never crossed my mind to use it to be social lol
18+ for anything I am involved with. My friends range from literally 18 to 60 years old. Age is just a number for the most part in this kind of social environment. The oldest person I have ever hung out with was 68 if I recall.
Also Quest users have a relatively cheap setup and I try to make sure they are able to hang out in my worlds.
edit : as far as the social thing, I am surprised mapcore does not already have a VR meetup. After you experience it you wont want to go back I am not kidding.
Quote from Castle37 minutes ago, Castle said: Age is just a number for the most part in this kind of social environment.
[Blocked Image: https://i.giphy.com/media/3o7btT1T9qpQZWhNlK/giphy.gif]
Quote from Castle50 minutes ago, Castle said: 18+ for anything I am involved with. My friends range from literally 18 to 60 years old. Age is just a number for the most part in this kind of social environment. The oldest person I have ever hung out with was 68 if I recall.
Also Quest users have a relatively cheap setup and I try to make sure they are able to hang out in my worlds.
edit : as far as the social thing, I am surprised mapcore does not already have a VR meetup. After you experience it you wont want to go back I am not kidding.
Are the girls hot? (my pandemic lay count is depressing)
Quote from Lizard1 hour ago, Lizard said: [Blocked Image: https://i.giphy.com/media/3o7btT1T9qpQZWhNlK/giphy.gif]
I stress the 18+ aspect because anything lower than that gets an instant kick. After that its pretty meaningless.
Quote from Buddy1 hour ago, Buddy said: Are the girls hot? (my pandemic lay count is depressing)
LOL
The semi famous streamers and youtube content creators to exotic pole dancing cat girls. The variety of different hotness levels will likely bend your brain.
edit : To add more to this, I have rationalized that when your identity is your avatar then its a form of transhumanism thus by default everyone in VR who identifies as their avatar as their chosen appearance is trans by default. Its a gray area but honestly its an entire topic by itself.
26 minutes ago, ThunderKeil said: you do you dude but idk that sounds like a specific usecase for a very specific crowd of people
VRC is now pushing 45k active players every weekend as far as I can tell. The popularity is increasing and so is money making potential. Assuming its all just because of ERP is pretty ignorant.
edit : Its definitely a facet though!
Castle is this you? 
Great insights, keep them coming!
The more I think about VR, the more I think that it's a misconception that it's a "replacement" for real life. Just like any other new media, it will have its own applications and uses, and we are barely scratching the surface of what's possible. I really have no interest to play games where you shoot robots or zombies (like 90% of VR games). But visiting the Cologne Cathedral in VR was a great experience.
VR is in a strange space right now, because it's too small to make quality projects financially feasible, so most of the stuff we see is sub-par mobile games trying to make a quick buck. There are some interesting experiences, but they are all very niche. Honestly, it's a very exciting space, kind of like the internet before Facebook ruined it all 
Ok maybe this was a mistake. I was kinda not expecting this to go like this and I did ask before saying anything. Like I understand the reaction "lol erp" but honestly you gotta be thinking about this in greater depth than that.
Just so you know I developed a VR COOP PVE Zombie shooter similar to left for dead and currently have the most technically advanced live event world in VRC as well as connections with a lot of the biggest streamers and communities in the scene. I also exploring how to monetize in ways nobody is currently doing.
sorry for interrupting the conversation about the future of VR I guess. Ill head out now
Porn is pretty inextricably tied to technological advancements, pretty much everything with people traces back to sex, but it's also a bit outside the scope of our forums, which are tied more directly to the mainstream games industry.
So, more rated R here as opposed to rated X. That said, I imagine as time goes on with VR (and I guess already, to an extent) it's going to get HARDER and HARDER to discuss without talking about society's collective proclivities.
I don't know if I would call that dystopic so much as more of the same for human beings. What concerns me more is how Facebook is obviously looking to extend the present control they have over people on Facebook and Instagram into VR, which they obviously hope to monopolize. It would be nice if Valve made more of a play for the mainstream and competed with Oculus on middle-end devices, because otherwise people will just drift more and more into that monopolized space.
If people are hanging out more and more in VR, but it's just a lifeless extension of Facebook via patent-trolling, lack of competition and oppressive advertising, that *would* be rather dystopian.
It's sad to me that this will eventually turn to garbage full of retards just like everything that eventually reaches mass market... think internet, chats, video games...
On 4/19/2021 at 5:01 PM, ThunderKeil said: I think I can reasonably assert
"exclusively using the platform for ERP" was a shit thing to say especially in light of the fact that I am in a process now of trying to push things forward. Does that ALSO include sexual content? Does a bear shit in the woods? Like seriously, what was the point of going off like that? So after I read what you said I realized that it was likely that more than a few people were reading what I was saying through some lens like like all I am talking about is porn. That was it, porn is the only thing being talked about nothing else mattered. I just felt like fuck this... I left to cool off for a bit but it I was seriously worried about the prospect of trying to explain this to people on the outside. I was seriously expecting to come back to a bunch of "HAHA point and laugh at the porno person" remarks lol...
The only reason I mentioned that age does not matter is because in my experience people of all ages and everything else tend to interact very well in VR. VR is extremely inclusive, its easily the most progressive thing humanity has by a large margin. It had nothing to do with sex in the context of "age not mattering". I am 42 years old and a damn large chunk of my friends are in early 20s and most of them think I am still 25. The oldest person I ever hung out with was Mark Hamill who I met a couple years ago in a random public lobby where he and another Joker voice actor were just randomly hanging out acting in character. lol... But reading over my post I can easily see someone reading it and thinking it was about having sex with a 68 year old LMAO!!! I just laughed and cried at the same time. Not going to lie this shit was bugging me for a couple days! I was having an existential crises.
"Is this what normies are thinking right now?"
The reason I mentioned 18 is because its usually involves a lot of drinking and being in bars and clubs. People below 18 are too young to be around for that, they dont belong in a bar or club in real life they don't need to be in one in VR. This was not about an exclusively sexual context, its adult content point blank. If you are under 18 go play Roblox.
On 4/19/2021 at 5:01 PM, ThunderKeil said: Are those people living their best life?
No its terrifying and sad point blank. But people have reasons for being this way. Sometimes they caught the L because someone they loved passed away. That can be insanely hard to deal with and VR can help give them a place to morn. This is how a metaverse works and if you don't understand it you wont be able to help them. You will also be blind to that demographic. Barging into their lives and telling them to "git good" wont help.
On 4/19/2021 at 5:01 PM, ThunderKeil said: I'm not here to pretend to be a moral authority
You sound like a boomer complaining about bitcoin. Good now that we are even, since I am apparently exclusively using VR to ERP, lets continue the actual conversation.
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The main thing to talk about here is that VR and metaverse content is a disruptive technology. This being a disruptive technology, take a giant whiff. This is what a disruptive technology looks, feels and smells like. This is highly disruptive to everything. (Yes including but not limited to the porn industry)
The metaverse is a black hole that sucks everyone and everything into it. VR is very disruptive. The entire internet is going to be viewed through a metaverse eventually.
Quote from MinosOn 4/19/2021 at 1:52 PM, Minos said: Castle is this you?
Sadly lol... I am in way deeper than that person. If you stare into the metaverse it will stare back at you. lol I am beyond the existential part and now I am starting to need an outlet to talk to people on the outside.
Quote from MinosOn 4/19/2021 at 1:52 PM, Minos said: The more I think about VR, the more I think that it's a misconception that it's a "replacement" for real life. Just like any other new media, it will have its own applications and uses, and we are barely scratching the surface of what's possible. I really have no interest to play games where you shoot robots or zombies (like 90% of VR games). But visiting the Cologne Cathedral in VR was a great experience.
VR is in a strange space right now, because it's too small to make quality projects financially feasible, so most of the stuff we see is sub-par mobile games trying to make a quick buck. There are some interesting experiences, but they are all very niche. Honestly, it's a very exciting space, kind of like the internet before Facebook ruined it all
Visiting a place in VR and having that experience changes you in a way that is hard to explain. Its not a replacement its merely just an alternate internet. Its a recreation of the internet, in fact, done in a way that is more conducive to humanity in general. Social media is just the first experiment and it had so many problems. Virtual reality allows you to physically be there spending time with others. Experiencing things together. While that may entail a lot of various kinds of activities, if you directly compare it to sharing pictures of food on Instagram its a straight objective upgrade. Pictures of food don't communicate with you. They don't watch movies or play games with you. Facebook is a relic of the past not the future. Virtual reality is the reimagining of everything digital in ways much greater than shooting robots or zombies. You now shoot robots and zombies together while drinking and having fun with friends and its on some random world made by some random person.
Quote from FMPONEOn 4/19/2021 at 6:37 PM, FMPONE said: So, more rated R here as opposed to rated X. That said, I imagine as time goes on with VR (and I guess already, to an extent) it's going to get HARDER and HARDER to discuss without talking about society's collective proclivities.
Exactly. People want cool looking avatars. Those avatars must then also must be attractive. The attention you receive for having an attractive avatar is amazing. The desire for an even more attractive avatar grows. The attention you get is even better. You then begin looking into getting full body. The attention and immersion is increased exponentially. This process seems to be extremely common. Once you compile this pattern with the fact that various games and activities will be directly tied to a metaverse you can bet your ass most people will be very attractive while they are playing other games attached to the metaverse. I agree with you 100% on this.
When people pick their avatars it becomes them. They will want to be that avatar in places even outside of the metaverse.
Quote from FMPONEOn 4/19/2021 at 6:37 PM, FMPONE said: I don't know if I would call that dystopic so much as more of the same for human beings. What concerns me more is how Facebook is obviously looking to extend the present control they have over people on Facebook and Instagram into VR, which they obviously hope to monopolize. It would be nice if Valve made more of a play for the mainstream and competed with Oculus on middle-end devices, because otherwise people will just drift more and more into that monopolized space.
This is an extremely important discussion right now. My take is that MOST people right now are clueless about what VR actually is. Most are still on some wave that it will be like releasing a new console or video game engine. Oh this is way more than that. Facebook seems to kind of have a clue what is going on and thus they are pushing their headsets but they are basically mentally deranged.
Making a headset that is capable of playing a metaverse game like VRChat, Neos, Chillout VR and then having the absolute tone deaf gal to attempt to force people to use a facebook account is beyond hilarity. This is the dumbest fucking thing in recent history. On one hand you have the next step in internet culture poised at disrupting the shit out of everything digital. And then on the other they attempt to get you to make a shitty throw away account for one of the most awful limited and dystopic failing platforms on the internet. LMAO!!! The only immediate comparison I can think of regarding this would be to have filled the Hindenburg with C4 explosives in an attempt to get it off the ground.
So what I am thinking that they are doing is hoping to try and make a metaverse that will be within some kind of walled garden right. The walled garden metaverse will always fail in when compared to a more open and free experience. Better memes more people to hang out with, sexier avatars, better live shows, better events, more indie games, less restriction on avatars. The more disruptive the metaverse is the better it will be for most people.
Quote from FMPONEOn 4/19/2021 at 6:37 PM, FMPONE said: If people are hanging out more and more in VR, but it's just a lifeless extension of Facebook via patent-trolling, lack of competition and oppressive advertising, that *would* be rather dystopian.
A walled garden metaverse is an oxymoron.
I am going to tell you right now, VR is still under the radar for most things that are about to get obliterated by the disruption. Most people have no clue how insanely all encompassing this is going to be. Gabe Newell is the only one on the upper echelons that seems to have an idea of what an "extinction level event for all other media" might look like in regards to his BCI.
We are having WAY too much fun right now. Once people start to realize what is happening it will be too late and it will cause a wave of panic for anyone who has not been paying attention. The metaverse is the killer app.
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