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Corona Virus

  • dmu
  • March 5, 2020 at 2:24 AM
  • Minos
    • December 14, 2020 at 7:29 PM
    • #201

    I'm not anti-vaccine, I just think this whole affair is being handled in a very reckless manner, and at the same time, there are all kinds of agendas being shoved down everyone's throats in the middle of the confusion. We live in a time of excessive information, of hyperreality, where the online/information world is more "real" than reality itself. Most of the information we consume is carefully orchestrated by varied interests. It's very hard to have independent thought, make your own decisions, and not be "punished" if your decisions fall outside mainstream consensus. (the basis of a free world)

    Here's an interesting piece of information. I'm a regular reader of CNBC, sometimes they have useful financial information in there. I've been seeing this Dr. Scott Gottlieb appear live all the time, being presented as a big authority on the pandemic, etc... I did a quick google search this is what his wikipedia says about him:

    Quote

    Quote Scott Gottlieb[/b] (born June 11, 1972) is an American physician and investor who served as the 23rd commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from 2017 until April 2019. He is presently a resident fellow at the conservative think tank the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a partner at the venture capital firm New Enterprise Associates (NEA),[1][/sup] [2][/sup] a member of the board of directors of drug maker Pfizer, Inc,[3][/sup] and a contributor to the cable financial news network CNBC. Before becoming FDA commissioner, he was a clinical assistant professor at New York University School of Medicine, the FDA deputy commissioner for medical and scientific affairs, a venture partner with New Enterprise Associates, a member of the policy board of the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, a senior official at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, and a member of the Federal Health Information Technology Policy Committee, which advises the United States Department of Health and Human Services on healthcare information technology. He was previously a resident fellow at AEI from 2007 to 2017 prior to joining the FDA as commissioner in May 2017.

    So this guy is at the same time: Former FDA chief, venture capitalist and investor in CNBC, board member at PFizer and a resident fellow at a think tank with a long history of involvement in shaping the public narrative. How can one believe he is presenting information that have the public's best interest in mind, when he has so much to gain from pushing a very very specific agenda? This is the kind of people who suppress contradictory information that doesn't fall into their view of reality. The current landscape is filled with such figures dictating public policies, and using this pandemic to advance their own personal causes.

    Anyway, here's a good read about the vaccine itself:

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-…sk-transmission

    Spoiler

    What’s more, neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccine trials tested whether the vaccines prevent people from being infected with the virus. Those trials, instead, focused on whether people were shielded from developing disease symptoms. That means that it’s not clear whether vaccinated people could still develop asymptomatic infections — and thus still be able to spread the virus to others.

    Q: Will people still need to still wear a mask and socially distance after being vaccinated? A: Yes. It takes several weeks to build up vaccine-induced antibodies and other immune defenses, and both vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna require a booster dose 21 to 28 days after the first dose. So the full protection offered by the vaccines would take at least a month to develop. And since the vaccines don’t work perfectly, and it’s not known yet to what extent they prevent infection, it’s possible that a vaccinated person might get the virus and be able to pass it on to others.

  • RaVaGe
    • December 14, 2020 at 9:37 PM
    • #202
    Quote from Minos

    2 hours ago, Minos said: I'm not anti-vaccine, I just think this whole affair is being handled in a very reckless manner, and at the same time, there are all kinds of agendas being shoved down everyone's throats in the middle of the confusion. We live in a time of excessive information, of hyperreality, where the online/information world is more "real" than reality itself. Most of the information we consume is carefully orchestrated by varied interests. It's very hard to have independent thought, make your own decisions, and not be "punished" if your decisions fall outside mainstream consensus. (the basis of a free world)

    Here's an interesting piece of information. I'm a regular reader of CNBC, sometimes they have useful financial information in there. I've been seeing this Dr. Scott Gottlieb appear live all the time, being presented as a big authority on the pandemic, etc... I did a quick google search this is what his wikipedia says about him:

    So this guy is at the same time: Former FDA chief, venture capitalist and investor in CNBC, board member at PFizer and a resident fellow at a think tank with a long history of involvement in shaping the public narrative. How can one believe he is presenting information that have the public's best interest in mind, when he has so much to gain from pushing a very very specific agenda? This is the kind of people who suppress contradictory information that doesn't fall into their view of reality. The current landscape is filled with such figures dictating public policies, and using this pandemic to advance their own personal causes.

    Anyway, here's a good read about the vaccine itself:

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-…sk-transmission

    http://# Reveal hidden contents

    What’s more, neither the Pfizer nor the Moderna vaccine trials tested whether the vaccines prevent people from being infected with the virus. Those trials, instead, focused on whether people were shielded from developing disease symptoms. That means that it’s not clear whether vaccinated people could still develop asymptomatic infections — and thus still be able to spread the virus to others.

    Q: Will people still need to still wear a mask and socially distance after being vaccinated? A: Yes. It takes several weeks to build up vaccine-induced antibodies and other immune defenses, and both vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna require a booster dose 21 to 28 days after the first dose. So the full protection offered by the vaccines would take at least a month to develop. And since the vaccines don’t work perfectly, and it’s not known yet to what extent they prevent infection, it’s possible that a vaccinated person might get the virus and be able to pass it on to others.

    Display More

    Minos stop thinking and listen to the experts

  • dux
    • December 14, 2020 at 9:48 PM
    • #203

    This thread:

    [Blocked Image: https://media1.tenor.com/images/5eb7e15ea4f569bfcf78e40942c2c369/tenor.gif?itemid=10587157]

  • dux
    • December 15, 2020 at 5:16 PM
    • #204
    Quote from ThunderKeil

    1 hour ago, ThunderKeil said: Tangentially related; Joe Biden filling his cabinet with Google and Facebook employees after they've spent months burying negative coverage & blatantly censoring people questioning the election @dux

    No different than any other president or person in power. All of them have hired shady people. And the whole election fraud thing is ridiculous.

  • blackdog
    • December 30, 2020 at 7:02 PM
    • #205

    Friend of ours tested positive. Apparently she got it from the child minder.

    I met up with her partner for a daddy walk 4 days before she tested positive, and my partner met the friend just hours outside the 48h window they tell infected people to alert people they met. So we are self-isolating even if strictly taking we aren’t required… doesn’t make much of a difference, we are pretty much in lockdown anyway.

  • kleinluka
    • January 5, 2021 at 6:15 PM
    • #206

    It is not possible to achieve herd immunity without vaccination. It certainly has never been done.

    The vaccine has now been given to millions of people (one of my friends in Germany got his 1st shot of the Pfizer vaccine today). The number of severe adverse reactions can be counted on one (max 2 hands) I believe. That is definitely in line with other vaccines and other medications available on the market. Honestly, the side effects of covid are already known and are much much worse.

    As for long-term side effects. I read a very interesting article about this by a virologist (I can't find it as I am posting this)... but the way it was explained (and I am badly paraphrasing) was basically that based on how this type of vaccine works, the ingredients in the vaccine dissipate in your body very early on so it's not even possible for the vaccine to cause problems years down the line. The jab's main job is to trigger an antibody/immune response and provide instructions on how to fight the virus if it enters the body. When that is achieved, the actual vaccine itself basically dissolves in your body. Again, I am really badly paraphrasing what the original quote was, but that is essentially how it works.

    Also, I repeat again that the vaccine was not "rushed" out the door as some are claiming. The safety trials were completed satisfactorily. The reason it feels like it was rushed is because in normal vaccine development the stages take much longer to pass as they aren't being pumped full of money by literally every country on the planet.


    I will be taking the shot as soon as I can. For those of you who choose not to, that's certainly your choice. Just know you are contributing to the global community not achieving herd immunity. I also imagine you will be restricted from getting certain services, or entering certain public places, and rightly so.

  • -HP-
    • January 5, 2021 at 7:54 PM
    • #207
    Quote from kleinluka

    1 hour ago, kleinluka said: I also imagine you will be restricted from getting certain services, or entering certain public places, and rightly so.

  • kleinluka
    • January 5, 2021 at 8:08 PM
    • #208
    Quote from ┌HP┘

    13 minutes ago, ┌HP┘ said:

    to be clear, by services I mean medical services.

    Yeah it sucks for those who make the decision not to get vaccinated. But it is a logical consequence of that choice.

  • blackdog
    • January 5, 2021 at 9:09 PM
    • #209

    Speaking of vaccine, I am not following the news enough so it came at a surprise when I saw the below info graphic.

    It’s normal to have multiple shots of a vaccine, but I just didn’t think of that, despite having done multiple shots with the child last year ? I wonder if it applies to all vaccines that are coming out

    Considering how long it takes to get full immunity, I wonder if there’s gonna be a lockdown parallel to the most intense rollout of vaccine, just to ensure you don’t get infected just after getting the shot (and basically wasting the dose + money)… read a few days ago a nurse in Spain got infected two days after the shot.

  • Minos
    • January 5, 2021 at 11:08 PM
    • #210

    @kleinluka what you are saying, at first glance, sounds beautiful. But think about it. You are saying that people who take a vaccine are pro humanity, good people, and the people who refuse it, should rightly be banned from society. It's hard to imagine what kind of repercussions such a segregation would cause. It could potentially do much more damage to the social fabric, than a portion of the population getting sick with covid.

    Meanwhile, London and California are reporting 3x the daily amount of cases that they were reporting before the lockdowns. Looking exclusively at the data, there's a chance that the lockdowns are actually making the situation worse in those places, with nowhere to congregate, people end up congregating at home, where most of the infections are happening. But that is not something any politician would ever admit if indeed is the case. It's easier to simplify the problem and find scapegoats, than it is to accept a difficult reality.

    The truth is, no one knows what the fuck is happening, and no one knows how to solve this problem. It seems that the more they try to solve it, the worse it gets. Just like the spanish flu pandemic passed, this one shall pass too, we just need to be careful and patient, and not freak out in the interim :P

  • RaVaGe
    • January 6, 2021 at 9:33 AM
    • #211

    I think we should split mapcore in 2, the vaccine guys take the main forum,


    HP, Minos and me take EOT.

  • kleinluka
    • January 6, 2021 at 4:13 PM
    • #212
    Quote from Minos

    17 hours ago, Minos said: @kleinluka what you are saying, at first glance, sounds beautiful. But think about it. You are saying that people who take a vaccine are pro humanity, good people, and the people who refuse it, should rightly be banned from society. It's hard to imagine what kind of repercussions such a segregation would cause. It could potentially do much more damage to the social fabric, than a portion of the population getting sick with covid.

    Why should others have to pay the (sometimes ultimate) price for people who choose to ignore the advice of every health agency on the planet? Fuck yes, I would want to be kept separate from people who pose a risk to me and my family.

    The two main vaccines currently have an efficacy of 90+ %, there will be others rolling out shortly where this protection is only in the realm of 70% I think many of these things will largely depend on whether it can be determined that the vaccines prevent transmission, which as of right now I think we still need more data to say for sure.

    If the vaccines don't stop transmission, then herd immunity through vaccine becomes far-fetched and at that point it really doesn't make a difference to me if you get vaccinated or not. However, the unvaccinated portion of the population would still be an unjust burden on the medical system by continuing to fill up ICUs and hospitals. Here in Ontario they are now pausing cancer surgeries because our ICUs are packed full of covid patients. I'm sorry but if you don't vaccinate because you just don't want to but then need to be hospitalized and meanwhile my mom gets her cancer surgery delayed and risks death because of your choice...you see why I would have a problem with this? If you actually had a legit reason not to get vaccinated, like a medical condition, that's a totally different thing and anyone would understand. But if you don't get vaccinated because of some unfounded rumour about vaccine safety, something that is not based on legitimate data or scientific fact, then yes, it should be you who pays the price for that choice and not my mom, or somebody else's mom. The vaccine has now been given to millions of people across the world and there have been, to my knowledge, reports of less than 10 severe reactions, most of which were treated within an hour and the patient released home. There is no scientific evidence the vaccine poses a risk in the long-term and no reason to think that it would.

  • AlexM
    • January 6, 2021 at 4:29 PM
    • #213
    Quote from RaVaGe

    7 hours ago, RaVaGe said: I think we should split mapcore in 2, the vaccine guys take the main forum,


    HP, Minos and me take EOT.

    Not every day you see someone openly admit they want to be in an echo chamber :D

  • Buddy
    • January 6, 2021 at 5:23 PM
    • #214
    Quote from Minos

    18 hours ago, Minos said: @kleinluka what you are saying, at first glance, sounds beautiful. But think about it. You are saying that people who take a vaccine are pro humanity, good people, and the people who refuse it, should rightly be banned from society. It's hard to imagine what kind of repercussions such a segregation would cause. It could potentially do much more damage to the social fabric, than a portion of the population getting sick with covid.

    Meanwhile, London and California are reporting 3x the daily amount of cases that they were reporting before the lockdowns. Looking exclusively at the data, there's a chance that the lockdowns are actually making the situation worse in those places, with nowhere to congregate, people end up congregating at home, where most of the infections are happening. But that is not something any politician would ever admit if indeed is the case. It's easier to simplify the problem and find scapegoats, than it is to accept a difficult reality.

    The truth is, no one knows what the fuck is happening, and no one knows how to solve this problem. It seems that the more they try to solve it, the worse it gets. Just like the spanish flu pandemic passed, this one shall pass too, we just need to be careful and patient, and not freak out in the interim :P

    In the Government, just like in giant Corporations, undoing of any kind is almost impossible. They will keep at it as nobody wants the accountability.

    That is also why certain changes only happen after a whole generation of people dies (diet habits for example, no senior ranked scientist will ever want to admit that their body of work was built based on a wrong assumption.)

    EDIT: I am not taking the vaccine, I've had COVID back in November.

  • Minos
    • January 6, 2021 at 7:27 PM
    • #215
    Quote from kleinluka

    3 hours ago, kleinluka said: Why should others have to pay the (sometimes ultimate) price for people who choose to ignore the advice of every health agency on the planet? Fuck yes, I would want to be kept separate from people who pose a risk to me and my family.

    The two main vaccines currently have an efficacy of 90+ %, there will be others rolling out shortly where this protection is only in the realm of 70% I think many of these things will largely depend on whether it can be determined that the vaccines prevent transmission, which as of right now I think we still need more data to say for sure.

    If the vaccines don't stop transmission, then herd immunity through vaccine becomes far-fetched and at that point it really doesn't make a difference to me if you get vaccinated or not. However, the unvaccinated portion of the population would still be an unjust burden on the medical system by continuing to fill up ICUs and hospitals. Here in Ontario they are now pausing cancer surgeries because our ICUs are packed full of covid patients. I'm sorry but if you don't vaccinate because you just don't want to but then need to be hospitalized and meanwhile my mom gets her cancer surgery delayed and risks death because of your choice...you see why I would have a problem with this? If you actually had a legit reason not to get vaccinated, like a medical condition, that's a totally different thing and anyone would understand. But if you don't get vaccinated because of some unfounded rumour about vaccine safety, something that is not based on legitimate data or scientific fact, then yes, it should be you who pays the price for that choice and not my mom, or somebody else's mom. The vaccine has now been given to millions of people across the world and there have been, to my knowledge, reports of less than 10 severe reactions, most of which were treated within an hour and the patient released home. There is no scientific evidence the vaccine poses a risk in the long-term and no reason to think that it would.

    Hey man, I'm sorry to hear about your mother. I lost a dear girlfriend to cancer, and my stepdad to covid, so I can imagine your pain. It's not easy. I merely said that enforcing this, like you are suggesting, will potentially create more damage than some other more nuanced approach (like for example giving people enough time to quell doubts about its long term effects). If we are to emerge better from this, we need to stand together, instead of breaking apart or giving in to fear. Humanity survived the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, and many other horrible diseases, and it will survive this too. Btw, pandemics last about 3 years historically, and with talks that the South African variant could negate some of the vaccine, maybe prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

    These are unstable times, and as the riots in LA showed, when shit hits the fan, no authority will save us. I watched places I know getting sacked on live television with the authorities completely unable to do anything. Many places around me were boarded up, while the police force was mobilized to protect the local malls. It felt very eerie to be outside, and made me realize first hand how security is just an illusion.

    Anyway, hang in there bro, stay chill, healthy, and be strong for your girlfriend and your family. They need you to be on top of your game right now ❤️

  • kleinluka
    • January 6, 2021 at 9:10 PM
    • #216
    Quote from Minos

    1 hour ago, Minos said: Hey man, I'm sorry to hear about your mother. I lost a dear girlfriend to cancer, and my stepdad to covid, so I can imagine your pain. It's not easy. I merely said that enforcing this, like you are suggesting, will potentially create more damage than some other more nuanced approach (like for example giving people enough time to quell doubts about its long term effects). If we are to emerge better from this, we need to stand together, instead of breaking apart or giving in to fear. Humanity survived the Black Plague, Spanish Flu, and many other horrible diseases, and it will survive this too. Btw, pandemics last about 3 years historically, and with talks that the South African variant could negate some of the vaccine, maybe prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

    These are unstable times, and as the riots in LA showed, when shit hits the fan, no authority will save us. I watched places I know getting sacked on live television with the authorities completely unable to do anything. Many places around me were boarded up, while the police force was mobilized to protect the local malls. It felt very eerie to be outside, and made me realize first hand how security is just an illusion.

    Anyway, hang in there bro, stay chill, healthy, and be strong for your girlfriend and your family. They need you to be on top of your game right now ❤️

    Thanks for your comments. Just to clarify, my mother's cancer surgery was last year. She survived it (so far), cancer is gone (so far)... but many others are not as lucky and are having their surgeries postponed due to ICUs being full with covid patients. I'm really sorry about your girlfriend and your stepdad :( Anyway, I've made my point about how I feel about things moving forward. Everyone needs to make their own decision. My only hope is that people think of the consequences and how they affect others and not just themselves.

  • blackdog
    • January 6, 2021 at 10:46 PM
    • #217

    @Minos just wanted to comment on the passage regarding humanity surviving this… yes of course it will, we are way too many on this planet to disappear for a fortified flu.

    The issue is that nobody wants to go. Nobody wants to be part of the statistics, especially not because you are out of luck and the last ICU was given to someone else.

  • Buddy
    • January 7, 2021 at 3:27 PM
    • #218
    Quote from blackdog

    16 hours ago, blackdog said: @Minos just wanted to comment on the passage regarding humanity surviving this… yes of course it will, we are way too many on this planet to disappear for a fortified flu.

    The issue is that nobody wants to go. Nobody wants to be part of the statistics, especially not because you are out of luck and the last ICU was given to someone else.

    Agreed, that is why increase your odds by staying healthy. Loose weight, sort out your sleep and don't think about Covid :)

  • kleinluka
    • January 8, 2021 at 2:38 PM
    • #219
    Quote from Buddy

    On 1/6/2021 at 12:23 PM, Buddy said: I am not taking the vaccine, I've had COVID back in November.

    FYI that does not mean you are now immune. You can get re-infected if you have already had covid.

    From the CDC:

  • Buddy
    • January 8, 2021 at 6:10 PM
    • #220
    Quote from kleinluka

    3 hours ago, kleinluka said: FYI that does not mean you are now immune. You can get re-infected if you have already had covid.

    From the CDC:

    For few weeks/months I am yes. FYI I will take it but not as an early adopter.


    Fun fact, because of how messed up my upbringing was I have not taken most of the vaccinations you get a as a child (misplaced paperwork, parents didn't care to sort it out).

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