Exotic Castle map Work in progress pictures...

    Hello everyone, i made a rough block out of my upcoming Defuse map in Halos Forge and would like the communities feedback. I have only just now begun learning how CSGO plays at a high competitive level purely for the map contest, I've been spending the last few weeks catching up on the last 20 years of Counter strike and i feel like i'm ready to start making my map.

    1 thing i have noticed in the CSGO design community is how desperately starved you guys are for original, and innovative maps. So i hope with my varied experience i can fulfill that void and take the #1 spot in this contest


    Top down view of my current blockout made in halo 5 Forge, Attackers spawn to the north, Defenders to the South. In the final map there will be a wall dividing the attackers from the bomb site just below their spawn, even though in the picture it looks like you can drop down

    [Blocked Image: https://screenshotscontent-d3002.xboxlive.com/xuid-2533274907943397-private/9691a9b2-1803-4c56-a5eb-0b5dc2da8458.PNG?sv=2015-12-11&sr=b&si=DefaultAccess&sig=LsXWEyFAwxj2PFMYB4WtJR6ufD5dbX81WjFZT6IZY8M%3D]


    On the picture below you can see as spiraling tower on the bottom, This position has overwatch over both bomb sites, an asset that both teams can attempt to take control of. The sand will absorb all fall damage so that players going down the ramp always have another option to push, it is a one way drop however, as they will then be led to a inclined ramp which leads up to the sniper tower.

    [Blocked Image: https://screenshotscontent-d3002.xboxlive.com/xuid-2533274907943397-private/946fdc50-621a-4ed4-b601-e96aa68b17e5.PNG?sv=2015-12-11&sr=b&si=DefaultAccess&sig=ZJ6xyW6glUoEDxcXNYNTM261a1DeTf9MNGAHuWtvJgU%3D]


    Everything is to scale, the yellow blocks represent player models placed at key line of sight engagements. the yellow block at the top of the building there can be reached by teamate boosting. The bridge has a layered bomb site, meaning you can arm above or below

    [Blocked Image: https://screenshotscontent-d2001.xboxlive.com/xuid-2533274907943397-private/89598042-637c-4d16-9df2-30dcd18a79e7.PNG?sv=2015-12-11&sr=b&si=DefaultAccess&sig=2fBA70gLtwT7P%2BfcO%2BiGo9FnEq8YYGLOfCyQt%2FAwVEo%3D]


    There are a lot more features that would be to hard to detail in the pictures alone, like more one way drops, nerdy lines of sight, wall bangs, and nade tricks of course. Looking forward to competing with you all :D

    Quote from CommonCrayon

    6 hours ago, CommonCrayon said: You have to be trolling.

    nope, lol

    Do you guys know what a blockout is? This is a preliminary phase before building the map using the hammer editor, maybe you are confused

    Quote from Soldat Du Christ

    6 minutes ago, Soldat Du Christ said: nope, lol

    Do you guys know what a blockout is? This is a preliminary phase before building the map using the hammer editor, maybe you are confused

    normally you would do the blockout in the engine you are using. Scales be different etc and stuff will be lost/changed in the port. you do you though.

    Quote from Soldat Du Christ

    2 hours ago, Soldat Du Christ said: nope, lol

    Do you guys know what a blockout is?

    Have you opened any other topic in the contest? ?

    Quote from Vaya

    10 hours ago, Vaya said: normally you would do the blockout in the engine you are using. Scales be different etc and stuff will be lost/changed in the port. you do you though.

    Porting over is not that hard, I've remade maps originally made in Forge, in Unity 1:1. Forge is good for quickly laying out a concept like that

    Yeah I don't blame him. Hammer encourages the creation of on the grid, normie maps, because anything else is a pain in the ass and hard to prototype. The current map pool in CSGO reflects it, the only map that ventures off the grid in a noticeable way is ovp, a map produced by employees at valve. All of these angles don't really matter is your map is a boring ass four leaf clover (like so many now) because you took the safest approach possible. Of course simplicity is still a huge bonus for a map so I am not saying a labyrinthine jumble of connectors is a way to go either. I'm just saying map that beats Dust 2 (if ever) will not be a four leaf clover!

    Also, what if the upper bombsite is so high that you die from falling 625+ units. That would be nuts and kill the instant rotates (haha)

    Why the hostility ?

    I entirely agree with Vaya, this is an unusual approach, but if it is more comfortable for the mapper, let him do what he believes is best. That applies to the layout as well. A layout doesn't have to be a "normal" clover to play well. Follow the core gameplay rules of CS and anything can be fun.

    I am personally really excited about maps like these. It tells me here comes a mapper with a powerful vision of what he wants his level to be. And a map with a vision, those are the ones that will stick out and around even after the end of this contest. How about we stop shutting these people down with negativity or by forcing them into our conventions. I really want to celebrate their ideas instead.

    So you do you man, I am excited for this one.

    On a game play note, once you ported to Hammer, a new overview would really help to understand the layout we're looking at. It is a bit confusing right now.

    Literally the whole thread so far has been people discussing the fact that he built his blockout in another engine, what about the progress on the map? I'm personally pretty interested in the map since the layout looks pretty interesting :D

    Quote from Tynnyri

    49 minutes ago, Tynnyri said: Mapcore could become a center for making maps for CS:GO, but currently it just stands as another bland "here's my interactive 3D wallpaper, enjoy"

    If you don't think mapcore is a center of making csgo maps with 90% share in community maps that were included in CSGO across few years than I dont know what a "center for making maps" means.

    Quote from Tynnyri

    9 minutes ago, Tynnyri said: I really don't care to discuss this, A lot, and I mean a lot, of the CS community already ignores most of mapcore, and there's very little anyone can do to change that by listening to me rant about it. Popularity isn't form of quality, 4 clover layouts with different models aren't interesting to play, and mapcore, same as reddit, falls into the very flawed "looks good" mentality. That's just the inherit way social media works and there's really no way to change it outside of removing everything that makes mapcore popular. But everyone knows that already. I've been talking with a lot of people who have left the SourceEngine mapping community for various reasons and had a lot more fun making maps because of it, or got back to making maps because they left. And I can't blame them, social media is only popular if it enforces it's popularity. Places like Mapcore or r/mapmakers really hurt map making scene for anyone who does it out of wanting to make good maps, but again, most people know that already. Hell, as potato mentioned, nobody even mentioned the map itself before going straight into toxic accusations and unhelpful heckling. Anyways the castle map should be made in hammer if not only for convenience's sake.

    I think you are missing the point here. What makes map popular? Popular map becomes popular because players play it. Why do they play the map? Because they enjoy playing it. I really can't think of any other reason for the map to be popular rather than being a good map that players enjoy. I don't think you are in the position to say which map is good and which is not. It's the player base and their time spent on the map.

    Quote from Tynnyri

    40 minutes ago, Tynnyri said: I really don't care to discuss this, A lot, and I mean a lot, of the CS community already ignores most of mapcore, and there's very little anyone can do to change that by listening to me rant about it. Popularity isn't form of quality, 4 clover layouts with different models aren't interesting to play, and mapcore, same as reddit, falls into the very flawed "looks good" mentality. That's just the inherit way social media works and there's really no way to change it outside of removing everything that makes mapcore popular. But everyone knows that already. I've been talking with a lot of people who have left the SourceEngine mapping community for various reasons and had a lot more fun making maps because of it, or got back to making maps because they left. And I can't blame them, social media is only popular if it enforces it's popularity. Places like Mapcore or r/mapmakers really hurt map making scene for anyone who does it out of wanting to make good maps, but again, most people know that already. Hell, as potato mentioned, nobody even mentioned the map itself before going straight into toxic accusations and unhelpful heckling. Anyways the castle map should be made in hammer if not only for convenience's sake.

    If everyone is stuck making awful maps, just make a great one, win the contest and get into the game then. ?

    Quote from Tynnyri

    5 minutes ago, Tynnyri said: Yeah that's correct. Now riddle me this, why are these very same contest winners disliked by the community? I really don't care to discuss with someone who is clearly arguing out of bad faith. Just PM me or so

    mething, idk how mapcore works. Just don't fill this thread with praises of mapcore for no apparent reason.

    lol calm the f down mate youre being hypocritic here

    Quote from Tynnyri

    5 minutes ago, Tynnyri said: Yeah that's correct. Now riddle me this, why are these very same contest winners disliked by the community? I really don't care to discuss with someone who is clearly arguing out of bad faith. Just PM me or so

    mething, idk how mapcore works. Just don't fill this thread with praises of mapcore for no apparent reason.

    Never heard about anyone disliking anyone who was in top 4 in latest contest.

    No idea which community are you talking about. Is it a csgo community in overall? I dont think they give a shit who the creator is. They just want to play the map. You talking about mappin community? I think mapcore has a very healthy community. At least the top guys who are working on maps and can actually deliver.

    Quote from Tynnyri

    4 hours ago, Tynnyri said: Mapcore is flawed as a system. It rewards people clicking on your greybox that looks cool over greybox that plays well. Many people who describe themselves "environmental designers" hastily make maps that then win big contests like these, get accepted into the game/esea/faceit and nobody likes them because they weren't created by a level designer, but an environmental designer. The difference being the one is about making something play well, the other is to add green foliage around a map and calling it a remake. Mapcore could become a center for making maps for CS:GO, but currently it just stands as another bland "here's my interactive 3D wallpaper, enjoy"

    Quote from Tynnyri

    2 hours ago, Tynnyri said: I really don't care to discuss with someone who is clearly arguing out of bad faith. Just PM me or so

    Dude, you went on a bit of a bad faith rant yourself. Please take a minute to re-read your post and think about how you can formulate yourself in a more constructive, less vitriolic way and what would be a more appropriate thread for this kind of discussion (feel free to start a topic if none are suitable).

    Let's get this thread back on topic. Valid topics of discussion are the blockout itself or the approach of making the blockout in another engine.

    Without radar, it's hard to judge exactly how the gameplay is going to play out. Theorycrafting isn't all that great, but being able to tell where each bombsite is can help a ton. That isn't to say that the map and concept look great! An actual historic castle is a great environment to make a level out of, and could lead to some crazy twists in gameplay ?

    On the topic of using another engine, all I can say is that IF you were to use a different engine at all (for more controls or more versatility in creating your blockout), then I can only advice you to use -or have used- Wallworm and its plugin called Corvex for 3DS Max. This was literally designed to create brushes in the most crazy ways that are simply not possible to do in Hammer. And if it were possible, you can do the same work that would take months, in literally a day or a few days instead.

    Regardless, everyone has their own ways of working, so I don't see the problem of him using a different engine if it allows him to reach his goal. I'm excited to see the progress of this entry and the results in the final version of the greybox, and later on the map itself ?

    Quote from Tynnyri

    On 11/25/2019 at 8:10 AM, Tynnyri said: Mapcore is flawed as a system. It rewards people clicking on your greybox that looks cool over greybox that plays well. Many people who describe themselves "environmental designers" hastily make maps that then win big contests like these, get accepted into the game/esea/faceit and nobody likes them because they weren't created by a level designer, but an environmental designer.

    Ok Boomer.

    Now back to topic, the bombsite on the bridge thing feels a bit empty judging by the screenshots, maybe add some cover in there.

    Update: I abandoned the project, or at least put it on the back burner. This was because of a mix of the hammer editor being outdated and frustrating, my impatience, my unwillingness to learn new tools, my incompitance, etc.

    Its a fun change of pace designing for a different kind of fps, i feel like this would have been the best entree in the contest if i went through with it. Thank you for the support and or criticism everyone, good luck with the contest. If you want to see my other maps heres my yt channel: https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCYatg8Re7_v9jLaYB33hEgw

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