Opal

    Quote from Vaya

    5 hours ago, Vaya said: hey @MikeGon

    We're looking to add this map on the mapcore faceit hub in the near future, let us know what you think about that

    Absolutely, I would be honored! ?

    I would like to polish it up a little bit more before if that's okay - I want this to be a pleasant experience!

    (Unless you are on a tight schedule, then I guess we could go with this version...)

    I'm moving to the US at the moment, and the movers will keep my stuff 2 weeks - I won't have access to my computer for a while, so I'm looking at December 29-30 for version 1.17 - would that work for you?


    Quote from blackdog

    4 hours ago, blackdog said: Awesome, nice upgrade all around @MikeGon, looking forward to see the final.

    Thank you @blackdog ! Yeah lighting in particular still needs a lot of work, especially in the underground areas. Trying to strike that right balance between mood and visibility. :)

    Quick update:

    I won't be able to work on the map since I won't have access to my computer (and 99% of my belongings), for 2-3 more weeks... ?

    The movers were supposed to deliver my stuff this week, but they pushed it back to Jan15 - Jan20. Will keep you guys posted!


    Also, HAPPY NEW YEAR! May your LD/LA skills improve like never before in 2019!! ❤️

    Cheers!

    we've been running the map since monday on the mapcore hub and the general consensus seems to be that the map is currently way too big and you should basically trim the entirety of the 'underground' space and add the second bombsite somewhere else. We have a bunch of demos for you to review when you are back in the land of the living though! let me know when you're about and we can get you sorted.

    Just played it and have to agree. The routing and overall spacing of the layout seem off. The underground area is also not really fitting in my opinion. It takes too much space of the map and doesn't really fit the theme of the map. I think you'd be better off removing the underground area and go for a less vertical approach to the layout. The 'daylight' visuals are promising so having this huge underground area doesn't feel like a good idea.

    Due to that and the size it feels like a maze from time to time. Especially rotating between the sites feels mad. Also the encounters between players are a thing to improve on. Revisit cover placement and chokepoints.

    Oh and the stairs would look much better if the steps were less high :D And the water texture doesn't seem to be packed right. It appears black.

    tl;dr: less complex, more horizontal layout approach to get better visuals+gameplay.

    IMO the map is too big. There are way too many angles to check and it's literally possible for the enemies to come from behind. By removing the whole underground the map would be much better, it takes too much space of the map and doesn't really fit to the style of the map.

    Woah okay I'm back, catching up...

    I still don't have my stuff and computer, and I'm still in trouble. Using a work computer for everything atm.

    Resorting to legal actions against the moving company since they have my stuff since almost 2 months now. It's a mess because that's Canadian company an I'm in the US, so I need to show up to a court over there because those here don't take care of that. I'm looking for a lawyer atm to help me with this.

    I've been living in terrible conditions, out of a backpack for the past 2 months. They pulled a bait-and-switch on me, doubling the price compared to the quote, and on top of that, they completely unreachable. They don't answer the phone and don't reply to emails.

    I just looked at reviews, and they're basically a scam company. Obviously I'm deeply regretting and feeling very stupid for not looking that up before letting them take everything that I have. I'm basically experiencing exactly what these people are describing here: https://www.mymovingreviews.com/movers/access-canada-movers-8061

    Now the scary thing is that a lot of them are talking about their stuff being damaged, etc. So if my computer and hard drive are broken or lost, this project and all the source files (and... all my other projects as well) are gone. ?

    The kind of stuff that always happen to "other people", well sometimes it happens to you huh... what a nightmare.


    (This should probably be in a "What's going on with your life?" thread but since it affects the project I'm posting it here.)

    @MikeGon Damn I don't know what I would do if I lost my PC and all my stuff. Sounds like a complete nightmare, I hope this does not affect your motivation to work on maps. I wish the best for you, and I hope they don't damage your hard drive or worse.

    Quote from DMU222

    On 2/10/2019 at 3:49 PM, DMU222 said: @MikeGon Damn I don't know what I would do if I lost my PC and all my stuff. Sounds like a complete nightmare, I hope this does not affect your motivation to work on maps. I wish the best for you, and I hope they don't damage your hard drive or worse.

    I would pull a mcskillet if that happened and I lost my progress. This is why I frequently upload to workshop, and have cloud backup.

    Quote from DMU222

    On 2/10/2019 at 3:49 PM, DMU222 said: @MikeGon Damn I don't know what I would do if I lost my PC and all my stuff. Sounds like a complete nightmare, I hope this does not affect your motivation to work on maps. I wish the best for you, and I hope they don't damage your hard drive or worse.

    Thanks! I'll be okay... staying positive. Of course this won't affect my motivation- this is my career and passion afterall :)


    Quote from Vaya

    On 2/11/2019 at 7:20 AM, Vaya said: hope you get it sorted mike. map is always retrievable if it's on the workshop, small comfort just now I know :)

    Yep I hope too, though I would lose all the stuff that was in progress for the future... especially my custom models and making art isn't my speciality at all, and took considerable effort ?

    But hopes aren't lost. Consumer protection has 2 case filed against the moving company, and now the police is on their ass!


    Quote from Interfearance

    On 2/18/2019 at 5:30 PM, Interfearance said: I would pull a mcskillet if that happened and I lost my progress. This is why I frequently upload to workshop, and have cloud backup.

    Smart man! I should have done the same. From now on even my pet projects will be on the cloud I swear!

    Good news!!!!

    I finally got them to deliver:

    Looks like we're back in business!!!

    I guess NYPD finally got to them, because they've been strangely responsive in the last few days...

    Now, about the map!

    Thank you so much for playing and sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate it!!

    I gathered all the feedback not only from here, but outside MC as well. Here's what came up the most, and what I plan to do for each:


    "Underground area doesn't fit the style of the map."

    So in terms of themes, I really like environments that clash 2 themes together in a harsh way, and that's what I am going for here. But perhaps these 2 themes are too contrasted though...

    It had a "dirty industrial" look for a while, but it didn't feel very good... more like a scary ugly place you don't want to be in. I want both sides of the map to be as cool and appealing, only in a different way.

    One possible solution I'm thinking about, is changing the theme for a more stony/sandy "ancient" underground theme, using mostly the Dust2 set. I'll try it and see what it feels like!


    "...Remove the underground space and put bombsite B somewhere else."

    Well, that would be like deleting 40% of the map. Having an underground area was part of the initial ideas/constraints for the project, and making such a change at this stage of production would pull the rug under the castle of cards...

    In other words, one of the main motivations behind this project is to do 3D level design, because I'm not a fan of those flat, "extruded top-downs" maps... Simply put, I like Nuke a lot

    I'm siding more towards fixing it, than scrapping it. Maybe we can go into more details, and fix the small problems one by one...


    "There are way too many angles to check and it's literally possible for the enemies to come from behind."

    The level flow is actually very typical... but with a twist, literally (it's kind of weird to look at, but basically look at how the connections are the same):

    However, there are 2 extra connectors that I added and probably shouldn't have (I don't remember why I did that, I know I had a good reason to do so...):

    • The little vaulted tunnel that goes from Chokepoint A to Alley
    • The fact that Chokepoint B is linked to Staircase room... it shouldn't be

    I think that if I remove those it'll simplify it a bit, and feel closer to your typical CS map. I'll try it and see what it feels like!


    "Map is currently way too big"

    It was actually smaller a long time ago, but when I saw that the spawn-to-chokepoint time on official maps was bigger, I decided to add a few seconds everywhere. Spawn-to-Chokepoint A is 10.5s for both teams, Spawn-to-Chokepoint B is 10s, if I remember correctly.

    I agree that shaving 1-2 seconds there would be great. I might be able to make the spawns a bit closer, I'll see what I can do about that...


    "Rotation takes too much time"

    I totally agree. The biggest mistake I made during blockout is that I forgot to initially plan for a rotation paths, since I had no idea how CSGO worked (I still don't, tbh) ?

    Right now, the rotation route is 14.5s and I wish it was around 11-12s. I could also be more intuitive, because I think the optimal route isn't readable enough. It is:

    (A -> Alley -> InteriorHouse -> Jump through window -> Stairs room -> Connector -> B).

    The solution I'm thinking about, and it will be the first thing I will try, is to create a path through the Bombsite A tower, I like an interior space with a stair and a basement, that leads down under the street in mid. So it would cut a long detour:


    "Stair step are too high"

    The reason why I made them that high is because it worked well with the grid. Also those steps are actually really big on the references I'm looking at. But I totally agree they could be shorter if it feels more natural, I'll see what I can do!


    "...water texture doesn't seem to be packed right. It appears black."

    Will fix this asap!

    I have 1 problem with this map, and not even anything to do with the map, its that you and half the mappers on here keep using outdated icons on your radar images, seriously that T-side icon hasn't been used since the Beta and those bomb icons got replaced in 2014. My only guess as to why people keep using them is that the cs dev wiki only has the old bomb icons, and while it has the new T-logo its displayed bigger and so people just grab the first one they see.

    This is what you should be using

    Quote

    Quote "...Remove the underground space and put bombsite B somewhere else."

    Well, that would be like deleting 40% of the map.

    gotta break some eggs to make an omelette dude. just happens you've put the shell in the frying pan too just now ;) Deleting 40% of the map may be a necessary evil here

    Mike is too invested in the current layout and in love with the theme to make these drastic changes, even if they are for the best. It would be easier if you guys provided some ideas on what to do about the underground such as new paths and new bombsite B location.

    Quote from Vaya

    On 3/8/2019 at 6:51 AM, Vaya said: gotta break some eggs to make an omelette dude. just happens you've put the shell in the frying pan too just now ;) Deleting 40% of the map may be a necessary evil here

    Totally. Not sure that's actually necessary here though... I'm factoring in that feedback, but I'm trying not to overreact and set fire to everything on a whim! ?


    Quote from Radu

    On 3/8/2019 at 7:07 AM, Radu said: Mike is too invested in the current layout and in love with the theme to make these drastic changes, even if they are for the best. It would be easier if you guys provided some ideas on what to do about the underground such as new paths and new bombsite B location.

    I'm not attached to it that much honestly, I will happily make drastic changes if necessary. Quality is the top priority, here!

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