Devblog for my map de_fortress

    Quote

    Disclaimer: this thread is about a pre-alpha version of my map, meaning it may be not playable and/or highly unfinished. I wish to keep this thread until I worked out a good layout to keep me motivated, after that there will be a new thread

    de_fortress (workshop)

    Theme

    de_fortress is set in a "modern" castle (somewhat like cobble if you want to). However there wont be so much open space as in cobble, but lots of well-placed little connectors to keep gameplay interesting. I plan on using fun and strategic points of maps that already exist (but not for copypasting, just the general Idea), for the gameplay to be balanced, fair and inspiring.

    Pictures

    You can view all the devshots and other pictures of my work at http://efgh58.imgur.com

    What you can see now is actually just the mid and some connector "trials". I am about to make the spots, thats when the update is Please keep this in mind while commenting


    Feedback

    You can give me feedback over all existing areas, or go suggest me new routes or details


    I'm doing Layout for A right now, I though of it to maybe be like this:


    Do you have any additional suggestions for the A LAYOUT and paths connecting to it?


    That's it for now, I will expand the thread over time and progress.

    Hey Atrax, as you seem to be new to this you might want to read up on some of this level design business. Maybe you could take some time to read through my introductory thread to get some resources:


    Please don't add "lots of nifty connectors to keep gameplay interesting", it will definitely hurt any gameplay you make. Also definitely do not copy+paste out of existing maps, it doesn't work. They work as a whole based on a balance of ideas.

    We also realise this is a WIP, that's generally what we're dedicated to here :P

    Quote from jackophant

    Hey Atrax, as you seem to be new to this you might want to read up on some of this level design business. Maybe you could take some time to read through my introductory thread to get some resources:


    Please don't add "lots of nifty connectors to keep gameplay interesting", it will definitely hurt any gameplay you make. Also definitely do not copy+paste out of existing maps, it doesn't work. They work as a whole based on a balance of ideas.

    We also realise this is a WIP, that's generally what we're dedicated to here

    Thank you for the answer

    I'm not as new as you might think, I already got some maps (which failed because of layout) on my hardrive. Thank you anyway for linking youre guide, I did already read it before though


    You misunderstood some of the later part of the post:

    I meant to add good, not lots of connectors, so gameplay works. I know how awkward it is to have nonsensical or too much connectors all over the place. Also I don't want to straight copypaste out of any maps, just take some basic ideas (a mid, a second connector to a bombsite which can only be accessed by showing yourself at another location, etc). I should maybe correct that


    I hope you like what you see and continue to look at this post as the map progresses, and wish you a good time mapping yourself.

    And of course thank you for the good feedback I see you providing on almost any map


    Edit: Just because I'm interested: Did you write the feedback just based at the post or did you look at the map. Just need to know how to deal with it :)

    Quote from Atrax
    1. I'm not as new as you might think, I already got some maps (which failed because of layout) on my hardrive.
    2. I meant to add good, not lots of connectors, so gameplay works.
    3. I don't want to straight copypaste out of any maps, just take some basic ideas (a mid, a second connector to a bombsite which can only be accessed by showing yourself at another location, etc)
    4. Edit: Just because I'm interested: Did you write the feedback just based at the post or did you look at the map. Just need to know how to deal with it
    1. The worst thing you can do with anything in life is thinking you know more than you do. You're right, I don't know how new you are, and people progress at different rates, but telling me you have a few maps on your hard drive doesn't prove anything. We're all about feedback and helping here, and it's a level playing field. Even the operation mappers submit their work to be scrutinised.
    2. I can only go by what you say, I'm not a mind reader :P
    3. That's how mapping works, but with that sentence you pretty much described the entire map pool. imo you're approaching it the wrong way. It's more beneficial to work from a general layout, not bit by bit.
    4. Yes, I looked at your map on the workshop and saw one screenshot and stopped there. I then looked at your imgur album and saw I was looking at an incomplete layout and again, stopped there. You had what looked like gun spawns on the floor, and it seemed to be more of an aim map than a de map. Please don't underestimate what is visible in a map from pictures without having to be in the map. If I see a map in screenshots with a mid lane that is 25,000 units long, I don't need to load it up to know it will take me 30 minutes to run down.
    Quote from jackophant

    If I see a map in screenshots with a mid lane that is 25,000 units long, I don't need to load it up to know it will take me 30 minutes to run down.

    You run at 250 units per second in CS:GO with your knife out so it would actually take you 100 seconds or 1 minute and 40 seconds to run 25,000 units. I see where you are coming from though ;D

    Quote from Quotingmc

    You run at 250 units per second in CS:GO with your knife out so it would actually take you 100 seconds or 1 minute and 40 seconds to run 25,000 units. I see where you are coming from though ;D

    The round time in competitive CSGO is 1.45, that would almost take a full round to traverse.

    Quote from jackophant
    1. The worst thing you can do with anything in life is thinking you know more than you do. You're right, I don't know how new you are, and people progress at different rates, but telling me you have a few maps on your hard drive doesn't prove anything. We're all about feedback and helping here, and it's a level playing field. Even the operation mappers submit their work to be scrutinised.
    2. I can only go by what you say, I'm not a mind reader
    3. That's how mapping works, but with that sentence you pretty much described the entire map pool. imo you're approaching it the wrong way. It's more beneficial to work from a general layout, not bit by bit.
    4. Yes, I looked at your map on the workshop and saw one screenshot and stopped there. I then looked at your imgur album and saw I was looking at an incomplete layout and again, stopped there. You had what looked like gun spawns on the floor, and it seemed to be more of an aim map than a de map. Please don't underestimate what is visible in a map from pictures without having to be in the map. If I see a map in screenshots with a mid lane that is 25,000 units long, I don't need to load it up to know it will take me 30 minutes to run down.

    Thanks again for your tips ^^

    I get the feeling that you think this is the final layout for this map (esp. from your fourth point), however this is not the case. What you see is just mid with some "trial" connectors, hence the description "devblog" and the disclaimer ;). I just made the thread to see how people respond to ideas of the map I build in it, and based on that to change them completely ^^

    1. I just said that so you dont waste your time explaining me some stuff I already know, no insults towards you intended :D

    2. Thats true, just made a strange point there in the text ;)

    3. Exactly ^^ didnt see much map yet without some sort of mid ;) I also work on the general layout and I am just about to test how to connect different areas (layout is already in my mind, will add a drawing later

    4. As described above, these are not final but rather in-dev screenshots. It will be a de map but because of missing A and B sites, there are no bomb targets there.


    I encourage you to look at this whenever you like, or also when the layout is more complete, to be able to make some more good feedback :)


    Quote from Quotingmc

    You run at 250 units per second in CS:GO with your knife out so it would actually take you 100 seconds or 1 minute and 40 seconds to run 25,000 units. I see where you are coming from though ;D

    You got your point sir, my mid actually takes roughly 4 secs to run through ^^

    I just updated main post with a picture of my ideas for A layout, if you want you can provide some ideas n' shit ;) I'm mapping this right now so fast responses would be great for this ^^

    The long route looks pointless to use and tediously long. Short has multiple angles in- long looks like a deathtrap.

    How are you designing this - are you doing any paper work? is it mainly in-editor? that's never a good idea in my opinion if so.

    Quote from Vaya

    The long route looks pointless to use and tediously long. Short has multiple angles in- long looks like a deathtrap.

    How are you designing this - are you doing any paper work? is it mainly in-editor? that's never a good idea in my opinion if so.

    I've got a stack of paper in my room here ^^ I also don't know how to feel about the long route, I'll maybe go for an alternate route that spits the T's out on the left side of A where they are almost at CT spawn. That would be a risky route than, but also worth it because they could rotate to B through CT without giving CT's too much knowledge. On the other hand CT's have the time advantage so they can get the chokepoint of this alternate route much earlier for the T's than on the spot.

    Also short route will be more enclosed with props, doors etc, and I've already made the ramp narrower.

    Any other feedback is highly encouraged , after all thats the reason why I posted this ;)

    Right now I would just make the layout and then upload it for people to run around and then give feedback on, you are giving us very little to work from, just parts of maps with scribbles from paint over the top.

    Quote from Quotingmc

    Right now I would just make the layout and then upload it for people to run around and then give feedback on, you are giving us very little to work from, just parts of maps with scribbles from paint over the top.

    Youre absolutely right, I'm gonna post an update as soon as layout has beenj done a little bit more..

    Quote from jackophant

    Fixed that for you ;)

    I totally understand your point, it makes sense that people can't judge an as highly unfinished work as this. I really just wanted ideas on what to change early on, but I also can understand that I can't bother people with that as much.

    As soon as there is a playable reasonable layout, I'm gonna post a new topic to start all over ;)

    Quote from Atrax

    I totally understand your point, it makes sense that people can't judge an as highly unfinished work as this. I really just wanted ideas on what to change early on, but I also can understand that I can't bother people with that as much.

    As soon as there is a playable reasonable layout, I'm gonna post a new topic to start all over

    You don't need to start a new topic, just add edit your OP, although for history's sake stick everything else you have now in spoiler tags. It's also nice to see how far a project has come for yourself and others looking back. As an example you could look at either of my maps (Strada and Stupa) floating around here somewhere for how I've laid everything out.

    The important thing is that this is your map. We can help you shape it, but you've got to provide us with something to help you work with. More than anything it shows that you are willing and committed to making this map.

    If you're struggling with ideas, just go back to basics. Draw your map out on a piece of paper: try to aim for 2-3 entrances per bombsite, get a balance of long and short sight lines, and try to keep the flow simple. Don't distract yourself with any texturing and you should be sorted.

    Good luck! We'll talk on the other side :)

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