Complex

Complete redesign on B-site. This is just a preview, it's far from finished. Going with the construction site as the overall theme.

Quote from JustFredrik

As I remember, I liked B site as it was. I think the problem was not the site itself, I think the problem was that most of the action was drawn towards the A site. resulting in the B site not getting that much attention. If you feel like re-doing it go ahead but I think a good solution would be to in someway guide the terrorists so they would more often go towards the site. For example guiding light or a pathway that draws the attention of the player.

I allways walked towards mid/A and never went towards the B-site as a terrorist. I thought the site was fine exept for the headshot pit for CTs.

note that I'm writing this some time after the event so my memories might have faded or gotten twisted over time.

I've realized that I might have jumped the gun on B-site. I will try to recreate the feel of the site with a new but similar layout. Thanks for reminding me Fredrik!

New site, now possibilities. Just a teaser for now :v

Big update after quite some time! I'm quite happy with the map for now and will submit it for a playtest ASAP!

Overview:

A-site:

B-site:

Middle:

Changes:

1. Streamlined A-site and moved the site to the crane
2. Completely redesigned B-site
3. Removed stairs from Tunnel to short
4. Completely redesigned short
5. ...and a lot more less important details!

Known issues:

• Shadows of bars in mid and on short disappears at certain angles
• Timings to choke-points on B-site might need some fine-tuning
• A fence in mid is hovering in the air... Please ignore it :v
• T's setup on B-site is very uninteresting, any feedback regarding this is highly appreciated

Playtest submission got accepted and will take place on the 19th of november. I'll be there

Quote from Quotingmc

Map looks far more polished, less random props and more thought out placement. Starting to take shape.

Thank you! I've tried to keep the props at a minimum. I've only placed props that has a direct impact on gameplay this time around

Quote from laminutederire

Looking forward to the playtest

Thank you! It will hopefully play a lot better this time around

Small update today that fixes some dark spots on the map. The overview is slightly out of date but there isn't going to be any major surprises, just some crates that's not on the radar.

Everything is ready for the playtest! Hope to see you there!

Quote from Tyker

Haha, time for feedback!

I'm not gonna quote that whole shibang! :v I am however going to try addressing all of the notes you made down below!

1. The bad walkable parts on B will be executed better next time, I was just lazy.
2. The dead end in T-spawn will either lead to somewhere or be removed.
3. Porter potty's on A has been blocked off to prevent confusion.
4. Slight detailing oversight in T-spawn, doesn't really matter if I'm honest.
5. The elevator spot on B caused a lot of frustration. This will be addressed, but I think B will be reworked and move away from the B-long approach.
6. I understand players when they want to smoke off B-long from T-side but don't know the proper angles to do so. It is however very easy to do and not that hard to figure out. I just think players need too look for a way to do it and they will find one within minutes. Playtest is playtest I guess.
7. The other dead end in T-spawn will also be removed.
8. The changes to the crates on the way to upper A (for T's) was last minute, that's why it looks odd, but I've made sure that the bomb couldn't get stuck there.
9. Windows in the barracks would look really nice! I'll try to add them in a bit further ahead into the detailing stage though.
10. The "red route" has been removed. It was originally connected to mid, but the door was removed and moved to a less useful position.
11. I did smoothing on the crane, but I think it was left out in this version for some. My mistake.
12. I will try to rework upper A to something less "corridory", starting with removing the wall you marked.
13. Extra areas are never appreciated in playtests and I can see why. Upper A crate corner has been removed.
14. Glad you liked fighting in upper A. It will be reworked but I will try to keep some things about it intact.
15. The crane did look cool! I'll try to keep the angle throughout development!
16. Cubemaps doesn't really change how the map plays, but I guess I can add them in.

Thanks a lot for the feedback. The pictures really helped! It also helps me to write all of this down :v

Quote from Overdoziz

My feedback condensed one neat picture!

Also forget to put in there that because the CTs are so exposed in middle that they basically can't stop Ts from taking control of it through either of the entrances. If they try to the upper area Ts can just push the bottom area no problem and if they try to hold the bottom area they expose themselves to the upper area. Lastly, I feel like because of the entrances to either of the sites CTs can push up a lot which causes most of the fights to happen on the way to the sites instead of on the site itself. That's not necessarily a bad thing to have on one of the sites, but both sites seems much.

Overall I'd say the map is coming along nicely, though.

Thanks for the feedback, picture and words of encouragement! I think that I have addressed most of the issues above except the mid conundrum you mentioned.

I want T's to have more control over mid because I want the chokepoints to be in the tunnel and top-mid doorway. There are strategies that CT's can pull off to easier get control over mid however, but this is a playtest and no-one has really figured any smokes or strats yet. That said, I will try to redesign middle since it seemed too easy for the T's to push upper mid and go towards B or CT spawn.

Again, tanks for the feedback! Opinion in text really helps a lot!

Quote from Overdoziz

If you want to have a middle that is easily controlled by Ts I suggest taking a look at Dust 2. A perfect example of a middle area that is easily controlled by Ts, but also gives CTs some interesting options. Right now I feel like the options for the CT holding mid are a bit limited. (I did like the window you can throw flashes through, though)

Looking at D2's mid tells me that even though CT's can't hold mid completely, they can still hold strong angles in order to know what's going on in mid. I will look into redesigning mid so that CT's have more options to engage the enemies

Quote from Tyker

If it's very easy to do so and not hard to figure out, then wouldn't players have done so during the playtest to make themselves not die on long B?

Many people still died there every round. The screenshot with all the dead Ts on long B stands as evidence. (Unless you're going through the demo and finding completely different evidence, in which case disregard the rest of this post!)

If it's easy to do and figure out for you, that's fantastic! But apparently most players didn't. And in the end the map is not just for you to play, but for (hopefully) a large amount of different players. A big building on the side, for example, could really solidify the idea of being able to throw grenades onto it to many different players. Especially if you add reflective windows or props at certain locations to guide the aiming of grenades onto it.

I believe that the reason so many T's died on B-long was the bad lift model that was placed close to the CT's. A lot of hate was directed towards this, and rightfully so. I wasn't happy with the timings to this area and door control was too CT-sided. There was a lot of other issues in this part of the map.

The smoke is very easy to learn if you take 2 minutes to learn it, that doesn't mean that everyone in the playtest will know how to do it first time playing the map and I don't expect them to. But, I don't think adding a wall that makes throwing smokes easier is the way to go.

I've been absent for a while now but it's time to resurrect this map/thread!

There has been some major improvements to the map so far!

A-site

• Created another entrance from T-to-A
• Made the area a bit wider
• Closed off the barrack for better gameplay
• Made site slightly smaller and more centered around the base of the crane

T-to-A:

• Now features an actual area and not just a series of hallways
• Connected CW to an elevated window-spot
• Connected the dead-end-route from T-spawn to T-to-A

T-to-B (front):

• Reworked the whole area
• Brought back the door and side-route chokepoints from previous iterations
• Long B is now a lot shorter and requires T's to push lobby before entering

T-to-B (back):[/b]

• Reworked the whole area
• Added an elevator shaft with a vent that makes throwing smokes into the front lobby slightly easier
• Added an upper section that also connects to Mid

Connection:

Next up is B-site where I will pretty much rework the entire site.

Logic out! :cool:

A month has passed without any updates and it's time to reveal what's going on.

Has the map been scrapped?
No, but the map has have been heavily modified and the theme has been changed. I've made enough changes to it so that it doesn't quite feel like de_complex anymore, so the map will be re-released under a different name.

So, it's an entirely new map?
Not quite. Elements of the old map still remains. Tunnel, A-site and parts of Middle will feel a bit familiar to some, the rest of the map has been built from scratch.

Why all the changes?
The map as a whole might have worked out ok, but the layout didn't play as I intended. Mid was too hard for CT's to do anything with and was lacking in complexity. The rotation times for CT's was a bit long as well, and I couldn't for the life of me find a solution to the problem without making structures that wouldn't make any sense.

Why the change in theme?
I never based my map on real life structures and found it hard to make the whole thing look realistic. I could imagine how it would look in the end but also realized that a map filled with tall buildings everywhere would make the map dark and smoke-setups really awkward to pull off. I found a theme that I really loved and changed it in a heartbeat. I'm happy that I made the switch.

So, what's next?
I will announce the new map once it's ready for playtesting. Until then, have this small sneak peek of the new project.

This will be the last update to this thread. Logic out! [Blocked Image: https://ci4.googleusercontent.com/proxy/4_xw4LSR9jz4rPmakmaQYbCZp1EAH-RJ9KGx3u7h6UzIuYOwadfKeY7ZL1ORl2g7C97E9-oH3Qgtc5LZDZOhnnDU1ccas-LcWeATA9k-EaKRlxij9-nZELUD0--K_-9aksZVHTC9T0E=s0-d-e1-ft#https://www.mapcore.org/uploads/emoticons/default_mapcore_smilies/emot_biggrin.gif]

Quote from BreadParticles

2 hours ago, BreadParticles said: any progressionizations?

I really want to see where this map is headed

Thank you for showing interest in the map

Progress is slow, really slow... I don't make enough progress per hour spent on it, and I'm still at the layout stage. That said, I am extremely happy with the areas that are done and they won't be changed much until I've gathered feedback from a playtest.

I have no intention to release any build yet, since big chunks of the map are still under heavy construction. I only showcase the map in private session with friends. If you really want to see the map for yourself you can add me on Steam When I feel like the map is good enough to playtest I will do so with a competitive 5v5 game to iron out some flaws, before applying to the Mapcore playtest.

No thread will be created yet either, since there are still major changes taking place. Showing the current state would waste both my time and anyone else providing feedback to it.

I'm rambling But to sum up:

• Progress is slow, but at least there is progress
• I have no intention to release any builds until playtest is ready
• No thread will be created either.
• Add me on steam on future updates!