Complex

    Complex

    Complex is a defusal map based on the Temple of Philae, an Egyptian temple complex located on an island in the Nile.

    Links

    Complex Alpha Workshop

    Earlier versions

    Spoiler Theme Complex is a level set in a construction site. The theme isn't fully developed yet, but there will hopefully be more to it than that.

    Layout The left side of the map is quite simplistic and the right side is more complex, with multiple floors to fight over.

    Terrorists has an advantage when it comes to taking control of middle.

    Alpha 18

    Spoiler Overview

    A-site

    B-site

    Middle

    Alpha 12

    Spoiler Overview

    A-site

    B-site

    Middle

    Status

    The map is in greybox alpha. Will go into detailed beta soon(TM).

    Ok so had a game against bots on this and then had a run around and I do like it overall. I feel that this will be interesting to see in playtest, it seems that the map has got some very interesting encounter spots. My only real gripe is with it is the passages around A being a little over complex pun not intended and maybe a few too may places to hide for an after plant scenario. Example being able to boost on top of the crane base. I felt that if you were playing a team that knew what they were doing it would be too hard to retake the site. I may be wrong and would like to see it in action.

    I feel that mid is a little T sided as if the ct pushes the overpass section to look at the t spawn entrance he is very easily flanked. however I feel if you were playing this map you would hold a little further back and let them push rather than pushing mid.

    I really liked the B set up <3

    I think this map has a lot of potential and am excited to see it progress. glhf :D

    So I myself also had a run around the map with bots. Some of the impressions I collected:

    First of all the map looks good (I especially love the container homes and the stones in mid. I have to state though, that I felt like the props were not corresponding to a main theme.

    Second the gameplay:

    The navmesh on CT side seems really mucked up ^^. CTs keep getting stuck on the door at B and just rush mid most of the times, where they wait, until the bomb is planted(otherwise they like B for a roundstart). Ts seem to plant on A usually, and I have to say, that A is hard to defend, since there are many angles the Ts could come from (given they have taken mid, which happens often because it favors Ts thanks to being able to just smoke out the one single CT entrance to it from their spawn). I don't know if I just took the wrong approach here, by defending from down back at the foot of the crane, But I also had problems retaking A (especially since the CT bots were all stuck on that door xD). There were just too many Ts in the site already (btw the readability is bad with the box in the corner of the site closest to CT Spawn, Ts have almost the same colour :D ). I would suggest removing the back of the road like thing in the back of A towards CT side. It's tough to check without running out in the open, turning your back on the actual site. B looks cool, although I imagine it being a tough charge for the Ts to get into the site. Once they have it its great though :D . Rotations are easy to hold down for the Ts, by controlling the hall infront of mid (on CT side) and the underpass to A. No one wants to run around through T Spawn, when the bombs ticking. That'd be it for now, if I remember anything else later, I will comment again :) . Until then keep up the good work!

    Cheers!

    Quote from Cruckz

    Ok so had a game against bots on this and then had a run around and I do like it overall. I feel that this will be interesting to see in playtest, it seems that the map has got some very interesting encounter spots. My only real gripe is with it is the passages around A being a little over complex pun not intended and maybe a few too may places to hide for an after plant scenario. Example being able to boost on top of the crane base. I felt that if you were playing a team that knew what they were doing it would be too hard to retake the site. I may be wrong and would like to see it in action.

    I feel that mid is a little T sided as if the ct pushes the overpass section to look at the t spawn entrance he is very easily flanked. however I feel if you were playing this map you would hold a little further back and let them push rather than pushing mid.

    I really liked the B set up <3

    I think this map has a lot of potential and am excited to see it progress. glhf

    I also worry that A-site is far too complex and too hard to retake in a competitive 5v5 game. I simply put all of the routes in too see which routes the terrorists prefers. I will adjust the routes based on gameplay feedback.

    Middle is by design easier for the Terrorists to take at the start of every round. Peeking as a CT is risky but may be a risk worth taking if you can catch the T's off guard and you can do some cool smokes to smoke off the catwalk :cool: This is my thoughts on it anyway, we'll see how it all plays out tonight

    I'm not sure where the easy flank you were talking about is. Maybe you could show me your thoughts on a picture or something?

    Anyways, thank you for the feedback Cruckz! I'm happy you liked B-site!

    Quote from Rick_D

    why is there a black cock on a generator?

    It is there because I was bored and put some random overlays to spice things up.

    Quote from Freaky_Banana

    So I myself also had a run around the map with bots. Some of the impressions I collected:

    First of all the map looks good (I especially love the container homes and the stones in mid. I have to state though, that I felt like the props were not corresponding to a main theme.

    Second the gameplay:

    The navmesh on CT side seems really mucked up ^^. CTs keep getting stuck on the door at B and just rush mid most of the times, where they wait, until the bomb is planted(otherwise they like B for a roundstart). Ts seem to plant on A usually, and I have to say, that A is hard to defend, since there are many angles the Ts could come from (given they have taken mid, which happens often because it favors Ts thanks to being able to just smoke out the one single CT entrance to it from their spawn). I don't know if I just took the wrong approach here, by defending from down back at the foot of the crane, But I also had problems retaking A (especially since the CT bots were all stuck on that door xD). There were just too many Ts in the site already (btw the readability is bad with the box in the corner of the site closest to CT Spawn, Ts have almost the same colour ). I would suggest removing the back of the road like thing in the back of A towards CT side. It's tough to check without running out in the open, turning your back on the actual site. B looks cool, although I imagine it being a tough charge for the Ts to get into the site. Once they have it its great though . Rotations are easy to hold down for the Ts, by controlling the hall infront of mid (on CT side) and the underpass to A. No one wants to run around through T Spawn, when the bombs ticking. That'd be it for now, if I remember anything else later, I will comment again . Until then keep up the good work!

    Cheers!

    I'm happy you liked the visuals in some areas. The map isn't detailed yet and props have been randomly placed to make areas feel less empty. I will certainly fix this once the map goes into the detailing phase!

    What can I say about the bots, they are all idiots and the nav-mesh isn't really a priority at this point

    I understand that A-site is currently a bit tricky to defend. I though that CT's would push up and defend the tunnel as a start though, giving them some space to fall back on if T's were to push their position. Still, it's not perfect and I'll give the whole area an overhaul once I get some more feedback The wasted space that leads up to the truck will most likely be removed as well.

    I can't tell which box you meant though, maybe you can show me with a picture? :???:

    I'm still trying to make T-spawn relevant, but it's a though task since timings still need to match up with the current timings. I'll look into redesigning T-spawn from scratch some day!

    Thank you for the feedback! It's great to hear these things from other people as well

    Quote

    I also worry that A-site is far too complex and too hard to retake in a competitive 5v5 game. I simply put all of the routes in too see which routes the terrorists prefers. I will adjust the routes based on gameplay feedback.

    I would suggest doing the exact opposite. Start with a really simple design and incrementally add routes as required. If you try to skip to (or past in your case..) the end layout you'll have tons of issues fixing sightlines/timings etc for a route that may well end up being ripped out- I've been there, done that. Playtesters may end up overwhelmed with options too and you'll end up in a 'wood and the trees' kind of situation in regards to feedback. That's if they get as far as playing the map, People are often put off by a complex overview...

    Quote from Vaya

    I would suggest doing the exact opposite. Start with a really simple design and incrementally add routes as required. If you try to skip to (or past in your case..) the end layout you'll have tons of issues fixing sightlines/timings etc for a route that may well end up being ripped out- I've been there, done that. Playtesters may end up overwhelmed with options too and you'll end up in a 'wood and the trees' kind of situation in regards to feedback. That's if they get as far as playing the map, People are often put off by a complex overview...

    That's good advice. Thanks Vaya!

    I'm just not really sure how to fix the layout as it is, but I'll definitely try to simplify the layout after tonight's playtesting session :)

    Just some rough feedback throwing in the pool.

    I would suggest closing a few connectors between areas

    Creating a long and short split at underpass connector to A?

    Simplify the path from spawn to A in front of site above underpass connector?

    Reducing the amount of vertical angles seen from each entrance into site by raising the ground and reducing the extra areas players must check before arriving at A site also seemed like unused space.

    The area between the red crate and A bomb site is neat

    Quote from Andre Valera

    I would suggest closing a few connectors between areas

    Creating a long and short split at underpass connector to A?

    Simplify the path from spawn to A in front of site above underpass connector?

    Reducing the amount of vertical angles seen from each entrance into site by raising the ground and reducing the extra areas players must check before arriving at A site also seemed like unused space.

    Thanks for the feedback Andre!

    I'm already in the process of redesigning A-site and have removed the connectors/dead space you mentioned. I'm not sure how to raise the ground level without having really low ceiling in the underpass, so I might try to keep it for now. I'm planning on making the crane the new A-site target so I might move the site all together.

    This is still early, but I'll include some images in the spoiler below:

    Quote

    Overview:

    A-site:

    I'll try to keep the Area between A and the red crate intact while simplifying the route from CT-spawn to A. I will also try to speed up rotation times in general.

    I recorded the entire gameplay session with TS audio. It helped a lot since there was very few actual comments (!fb, !feedback and !gf) on the map, I recommend others to do the same!

    hey there ;)

    Reaaly like the map from the screenshots, would be nice if you could upload it to the workshop for people to more easily access it


    I will say more when it is there, I am just too lazy to put the file in my csgo folder now xD

    Quote from Logic

    I'm not sure how to raise the ground level without having really low ceiling in the underpass, so I might try to keep it for now.

    How apart a ramped entry like Mirage A slope? Or the underpass leads up to a mid point between the main A floor and the underpass level with more stairs leading up, 2 sets of smaller steps rather than one set of longer steps.

    Quote from Atrax

    hey there

    Reaaly like the map from the screenshots, would be nice if you could upload it to the workshop for people to more easily access it

    I will say more when it is there, I am just too lazy to put the file in my csgo folder now xD

    Glad you like the look of the map, even though it's not that spectacular to look at :P

    Unfortunately I won't put this on the workshop until it reaches a level of detail that I'm happy with, and that might take months, or even years. I'd like you to reconsider installing the map manually though :v

    Quote from jackophant

    How apart a ramped entry like Mirage A slope? Or the underpass leads up to a mid point between the main A floor and the underpass level with more stairs leading up, 2 sets of smaller steps rather than one set of longer steps.

    The A-site has changed quite a lot since the playtest, but the high height difference is still there. I'll try to tone it down a bit using the methods you proposed. Thanks Jackophant!

    Guess I'll update my own thread with a picture of A-site while I'm in the middle of things. The ladder is fully functional if anyone's wondering.

    Just somebservations from the photos; Why is there a sign of a guy falling down some stairs when there are none around? Isn't that like a warning or cautionary thing? Maybe it is a sign (Punny) for my next point...

    Ladders! I would avoid using them, especially in important areas like a bomb site. The hit boxes may be fixed but they are still annoying to climb. I think a small set of stairs could run parallel to the wall and do the same job.

    looking a lot better than the playtest already, look forward to it once it is done.

    Quote from Quotingmc

    Just somebservations from the photos; Why is there a sign of a guy falling down some stairs when there are none around? Isn't that like a warning or cautionary thing? Maybe it is a sign (Punny) for my next point...

    Ladders! I would avoid using them, especially in important areas like a bomb site. The hit boxes may be fixed but they are still annoying to climb. I think a small set of stairs could run parallel to the wall and do the same job.

    looking a lot better than the playtest already, look forward to it once it is done.

    You're correct that ladders is bad for gameplay. But that ladder is an optional route. You have the choice to get on heigher ground quickly and take the risk of being vulnerable to attacks, or you can take the longer safer way.

    Quote from Tensei

    Is the propmodel meant to be with its front at the wall ?

    I though that the prop looked identical on both the front and back, but it has been changed since the screenshots were taken

    Quote from Quotingmc

    Why is there a sign of a guy falling down some stairs when there are none around?

    Ladders! I would avoid using them, especially in important areas like a bomb site. The hit boxes may be fixed but they are still annoying to climb. I think a small set of stairs could run parallel to the wall and do the same job.

    looking a lot better than the playtest already, look forward to it once it is done.

    The sign has also been removed. It was a temporary gag for JustFredrik, it accidentally ended up in a screenshot.

    Just to be clear, I hate ladders. I think they are buggy and non-reliable, yet I think that it could work well on this site, kinda like the ladder on A-site Mirage. It's just an optional route that might be a few seconds faster than the back route. Also, the ladder is REALLY exposed! You have to be in control of CT-spawn, short and A-site in order to use it safely, and I think that it will balance itself out in playtesting. I could just remove it, but I really wanna see how it plays before I do.

    Thanks for the kind words Quotingmc!

    so I just wanted to look at your map, but the download link doesnt work.. does anybody have the link, or, better - could you please fix it ;)

    Quote from Atrax

    so I just wanted to look at your map, but the download link doesnt work.. does anybody have the link, or, better - could you please fix it

    Ohh, sorry about that. I guess putting the maps in a different folder messes up the links on Dropbox. Thanks for pointing this out!

    I updated the thread and all versions from now on can be found here! Currently de_complex_a13 is the newest version!

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