ALL MAPS FROM THE CONTEST IN ONE PLACE

it's the pumpupyourpublic guy! workshop famous for your majestic spam.

Neat!

It seems like a very painful task

Thanks for putting this together Le1T!

What a lot of submissions -- I don't envy the judges.

Nicely done. Good luck to the contestants, I decided to skip it as I'm still in playtesting phase, shit takes forever .)

Great job! It is fun to see what the community has been able to put together!

Thanks a lot for doing this! Now I can cry at what the competition is more easily...

My bet for the 4 finalists are Kharkov, Empire, Abyss and Cargo.

It'd be great if the judges could stream part of their process, like Cotton did for the last CEVO mapping contest. Might be a lot of extra work though I guess.

Quote from text_fish

It'd be great if the judges could stream part of their process, like Cotton did for the last CEVO mapping contest. Might be a lot of extra work though I guess.

Why did that guy even judge maps? He did not even know what nodraw was.

This is great work, must have taken hours... +1

Quote from Bodd Jonar

Why did that guy even judge maps? He did not even know what nodraw was.

The vast majority of Counter-Strike players probably don't know what nodraw is, but that doesn't render their opinion on a map's gameplay and aesthetic quality any less valid than somebody who does.

Quote from text_fish

The vast majority of Counter-Strike players probably don't know what nodraw is, but that doesn't render their opinion on a map's gameplay and aesthetic quality any less valid than somebody who does.

I agree with this, however I feel more secure knowing that an experienced mapmaker is judging my map rather than any other person. Even if the person is a pro player I would still prefer the judge (or at least one) to be a mapmaker since these are people who spend a lot of time thinking about map-layout, positional advantage, aesthetic quality and also understands the technical aspects of mapmaking. You don't have to be a mapmaker to have an opinion on aesthetic quality or gameplay, but a person with this background I feel have more ground to stand on. Does that make sense?

Ideally the jury would consist of map makers, as well as pros, and players of various ranks, so that the map appeal to a wide range of people, with a competitive playability, while favoring interesting and different layouts which would be recognized more easily by mappers.

Also, map makers have a particular eye on things such as polishing, they can see more easily if a map is really well thought, through how it is optimized, and even through the brushwork. This can help choose between two maps both great gameplay and aesthetics wise. Maybe that's part of what you meant @Oliver?

However, @text_fish, one could argue that probably half of players play either dust2 or mirage

Quote from text_fish

The vast majority of Counter-Strike players probably don't know what nodraw is, but that doesn't render their opinion on a map's gameplay and aesthetic quality any less valid than somebody who does.

Oliver said pretty much what I thought.

The nodraw thing was just a minor thing btw, the way he judge the maps was very weird and made no sense. I would think that CEVO would playtest a map before rendering a layout useless, not just run around on it for 10 minutes and focusing 7 minutes of them on nonsense. Cotton shouldn't judge maps alone, is all I'm saying.

Quote from laminutederire

Ideally the jury would consist of map makers, as well as pros, and players of various ranks, so that the map appeal to a wide range of people, with a competitive playability, while favoring interesting and different layouts which would be recognized more easily by mappers.

Also, map makers have a particular eye on things such as polishing, they can see more easily if a map is really well thought, through how it is optimized, and even through the brushwork. This can help choose between two maps both great gameplay and aesthetics wise. Maybe that's part of what you meant @Oliver?

However, @text_fish, one could argue that probably half of players play either dust2 or mirage

Oh yeah, definitely, a combination of all kinds of angles from the CS:GO community would be the ideal jury. I am happy about the current format though, we've got a jury consisting of three mapmakers, one artist and one journalist, so I trust that we will get a very fair judging from their part! In the future I hope to see these contest only getting more attention from the community! Better maps is what keeps the game alive.

Quote from text_fish

The vast majority of Counter-Strike players probably don't know what nodraw is, but that doesn't render their opinion on a map's gameplay and aesthetic quality any less valid than somebody who does.

Being real honest here. Over the past 7 years i've tested my maps on live server with the community i run, for different games and mostly what i get out of them are 3 sentences. 1. Good map. 2. Shit map (and quit). 3, the most common answer: Silence.

I guess what i'm trying to say here is, either people get really good first impression or they get frustrated if the map has more than 2 turns to see the enemy (dust2 for example, hass less than 3.). Most gamers are simple minded and play the same maps over and over. They aren't even interested of trying new maps unless they get some sort of perks or profit from it. Vast majority of CSGO gamers do not ever buy the mission pass or whatever they call that.

So having a judge that genuinely is interested of testing new things, regardless if he has technical knowledge about maps is perfectly fine but if you throw that task to someone who simply "has to do it", is a bad thing. So i'm hoping these guys who pick the maps (who of course are mapcore staff and do know something about maps), also play the candidates ingame and not simply watch screenshots.

@ics I agree with you on the point that most players are drawn to the first impressions of the map (cover image and the overview image). What this contest has taught me more than anything is that theme is what sells. Players will make an opinion whether your map is worthy of checking out within a few seconds of looking at the workshop page. So finding the balance between complexity (laying out opportunities for varied and deeper play) and simplicity (simple, elegant layout that guides new players and welcomes the player rather than having the barrier of learning a map thoroughly) in your map is the most difficult part to do. All this while implementing the layout with fitting surroundings. Sorry if I'm rambling, but as mapmakers it can be frustrating to have a layout just shot down by people who only took one glance at it. Hiding the "complexity" in the layout within the theme could make the player see the map differently. Since we as mapmakers also have to consider the visual language that is the theme.

Again if this seems like some counter-argument it really is just me talking about map layout and theme as I find it an interesting topic.

Quote from Oliver

it can be frustrating to have a layout just shot down by people who only took one glance at it

*Takes a look for 2 minutes*: "Yeaaah too large and too many paths". While in reality, the map is about the same size as dust 2 with no more paths than mirage. Classic

Been into level design for close to 20 years now, it never ends.