Modern themed map [CS:GO]

    thanks to @grapen tip lighting is so much better! I've reworked both bombsites and a little bit its surroundings. @jackophant I addressed the issues you pointed out to me!

    That leads to a new overview and new timings:


    as you can see, bombsites have different positions.

    The new timings are:

    For Ts

    • T spawn to A via long: 18,5
    • T spawn to A via short: 13,5
    • T spawn to A via drop zone:14,5
    • T spawn to A via mid: 10
    • T spawn to B via main:14,5
    • T spawn to B via mid:11,5

    For CTs

    • CT spawn to A via direct route: 6,5
    • CT spawn to A via mid: 8
    • CT spawn to B via direct route: 7,5
    • CT spawn to B via mid: 8

    Rotation Times

    • A to B via CT spawn: 14
    • A to B via mid connectors: 12

    I compared to dust2 timings and they are roughly the same. So let me know if this is better in your opinion too :)

    For those who want to test it, the link is the same than on the other post (link ). Here are screenshots for other:

    Quote from laminutederire

    Here are screenshots for other

    Please oh please hide the screenshots next time. They take up way too much of the page if you're not interested in looking at them :o

    Quote from Logic

    Please oh please hide the screenshots next time. They take up way too much of the page if you're not interested in looking at them :o

    Everything is hidden now, sorry for the trouble!

    Quote from laminutederire

    good job on the layout or good just on the hiding things part?

    Haha, I meant the hiding, can't try the level out since I dont have access to a computer this week :P

    I've watched the tournament these past two days and I noticed that they have a phenomenal teamwork and some ways to play very differently than us common people! Should the process be focused on a design for this extreme teamwork, or should it be focused on normal people teamwork?

    Quote from laminutederire

    I've watched the tournament these past two days and I noticed that they have a phenomenal teamwork and some ways to play very differently than us common people! Should the process be focused on a design for this extreme teamwork, or should it be focused on normal people teamwork?

    In what regard? Not sure what you're meaning here...

    Quote from Vaya

    In what regard? Not sure what you're meaning here...

    They use such a huuuuge amount of smokes flashes and molotovs :) and they have a more steady pace, way more patient because of the use of nades. So timings are a bit different since they spend half the round preparing their attacks!

    That's just what the game becomes at higher levels you even get plays like that in MM :P

    Don't design for this because this is players pushing the map design to its limits...try and design for this and you'll end up with a mess. If flaws are found after the map is released (These are only ever found after heavy playtesting with a wide player base) then you have amend to fix the flaws. Simple as that :)

    Quote from Vaya

    That's just what the game becomes at higher levels you even get plays like that in MM :P

    Don't design for this because this is players pushing the map design to its limits...try and design for this and you'll end up with a mess. If flaws are found after the map is released (These are only ever found after heavy playtesting with a wide player base) then you have amend to fix the flaws. Simple as that :)

    yeah but good players during playtest don't try that too much, so you cannot know how it'll play with this style

    I'm far from release, I like better the new configuration of bombsites but mid feels still a bit shaky, so I'm gathering all the feedback I can for now :) (even if it is a bit dead on here since esl one has started :P )

    My B chokepoint feel to me like B on Cobblestone, don't know if it is good though ^^

    Don't design your layout with the top 1 % in mind. If the level is accepted by the normal community (without extreme exploits) some people will take the map and play it competetively, if that happens you'll see all types of exploits/tactics emerge. It is then up to you if you want to patch these out or if you think that it enhances the depth of the map :)

    Quote from Logic

    Don't design your layout with the top 1 % in mind. If the level is accepted by the normal community (without extreme exploits) some people will take the map and play it competetively, if that happens you'll see all types of exploits/tactics emerge. It is then up to you if you want to patch these out or if you think that it enhances the depth of the map

    if I use the feedback provided here, I should design the map for the top 25-50% players, since there are not really bad players on playtests for instance!

    in the meantime I don't know what to change, no bots have ever arrived to the bombsite at the right time because they are all so fucking dumb... but I don't know if it is a symptom of a too long rotation time, or if it is solely the result of them running around T spawn then taking the longest route to the other bombsite, then taking the longest rotation path and arriving in the last 10-5 seconds..

    Quote from laminutederire

    if I use the feedback provided here, I should design the map for the top 25-50% players, since there are not really bad players on playtests for instance!

    in the meantime I don't know what to change, no bots have ever arrived to the bombsite at the right time because they are all so fucking dumb... but I don't know if it is a symptom of a too long rotation time, or if it is solely the result of them running around T spawn then taking the longest route to the other bombsite, then taking the longest rotation path and arriving in the last 10-5 seconds..

    Top 25-50% sounds better, even though you can probably go even higher.

    As for bots, don't use them as a reference on rotation times, they never run with their knife out and never take the fastest route. Run around yourself with your knife out, time the rotation from one area to another and try to get a picture of how the map will play by yourself :)

    Quote from Logic

    Top 25-50% sounds better, even though you can probably go even higher.

    As for bots, don't use them as a reference on rotation times, they never run with their knife out and never take the fastest route. Run around yourself with your knife out, time the rotation from one area to another and try to get a picture of how the map will play by yourself

    I don't know there are players like me who broaden the range of players on mapcore but I am one of the rare silver elite master to have headshot high ranked players during playtests

    Problem is that I am happy with everything excepting mid which need a revamp to play better, and a minor change to main B, but that aside I really don't know what to change :(

    Quote from laminutederire

    I don't know there are players like me who broaden the range of players on mapcore but I am one of the rare silver elite master to have headshot high ranked players during playtests

    Problem is that I am happy with everything excepting mid which need a revamp to play better, and a minor change to main B, but that aside I really don't know what to change

    Can you give us an updated overview of the current layout?

    Don't design your map for anyone. It makes no sense if only a certain section of the player base can play it. Make cool stuff that has depth, think about areas where people can set up smokes and flashes, to allow for tactical plays but if you don't want to throw the smokes or flashes, you don't have to but you will be punished due to exposing yourself to many angles at once and potentially being shot in the side/back while taking an engagement. Make it fun and have depth, and a meta will develop around this (three smoke mirage A take for example). You cannot really predict this meta as you cannot predict every way a player will play your level, you can only guess at a few and make an area play how you want (for example whether you want aggressive CT play to viable in certain areas or not).

    Quote from Logic

    Can you give us an updated overview of the current layout?

    Fudge, I thought I put it in the last update post^^

    There you go:

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/PXNp7o4.jpg]

    And @DooM, i opened spaces to allow many possible nades, I'm not worrying about them being exploited :)

    currently I am reworking mid by closing lower mid chokepoint which leads to too easy flanking. That way I can lower walls blocking view from upper to lower mid because that won't lead to over powered positions anymore. In the process I'll widden upper, replace the ramp from T side to make them single boost up there instead. I will also change the b long wall which originally was there to prevent sniping from B on mid, but that way, they will snipe only people going to B.

    Major Update!

    I reworked mid and adjusted timings for B a little, as well as placing the drop zone in the T's mid for more effective and "safer" rotation.

    Overview:

    Timing table:

    For Ts

    • T spawn to A via long: 18,5
    • T spawn to A via short: 13,5
    • T spawn to A via drop zone: 16
    • T spawn to A via mid: 11,5
    • T spawn to B via main:14
    • T spawn to B via mid:13

    For CTs

    • CT spawn to A via direct route: 6,5
    • CT spawn to A via mid: 8
    • CT spawn to B via direct route: 7,5
    • CT spawn to B via mid: 8

    Rotation Times

    • A to B via CT spawn: 14
    • A to B via mid connectors: 10,7


    Screenshots and .bsp:

    I figured I should post the imgur link instead of posting them here in spoilers, more easy to read for everyone. I'm putting comments and explanations of changes on there :)

    Link for .bsp file

    Thanks in advance for any feedback provided :)

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