The latest High-school massacre

That's might be correct, but it's still naive as the underlying problems are far greater. There will always be troubled families as long as there is injustice, poverty and whatnot. That's what people should be focusing on.

Nevertheless, violence is a fact of life and strongly correlated with a person's economical and social status. A weapon can be your fist, a rock, a knife, a pistol, a rifle, etc. The easier is its to obtain a weapon of greater power the greater the incentive to use it. The easier it becomes, the greater the temptation. The greater the weapons, the greater the damage, the greater the power a person can have. What if you could buy trip mines or hand grenades from a store? Would people use them?

Just look at places such as Colombia. Poverty, injustice and easy accessibility to guns.

Removing guns wouldn't eliminate the underlying problems. Nevertheless it would minimize the consequences, while the actual problems would be worked on.

americans are raised in a culture of guns. Theres nothing intelligent about raising ur children in it. If u want to focus on intelligence, move to europe where we have normal gunlaws

Quote from RD

americans are raised in a culture of guns. Theres nothing intelligent about raising ur children in it. If u want to focus on intelligence, move to europe where we have normal gunlaws

if they move, they take their culture with them. so they'll get guns anyway (even if its a hunting rifle, it still got live ammo which kills you)...

There is truth to what was on a shirt a guy from Happy Gilmore wore, "guns don't kill people, I do." Coincidentally, he also had a screw in his head.

The point, it takes a screwed up person to shoot people, whether a screwed up person would have a harder time accessing guns with scricter gun laws or not, thats debatable.

Moving to europe is not a solution. Knowing how to sit down with your children and explain the rights and wrongs in society along with proper morals and ethics is what we should focus on. Due to how America started, Gun Laws will most likely always stay in effect. However the further detriment to family morals continues. What I mean by that is people are getting more lax with their children letting them get away with stuff. Children test the bounds of their parents. Parents should at an early age explain the bounds and rules. Correct parenting in my mind is what solves these types of problems, not more government sanctions.

Quote from RD

And yes klein, its actually hard to get a gun here in Europe, unless u have lotsa connections, and thats exactly what psychotic wannabee massmurderers dont have

False. The guy who did the Highschool massacre in Erfurt, Germany was member of a rifle club w/ shooting range which is where he got his weapon from.

I agree with what the others said, too.

In the end it all comes down to the person itself. A gun isn't dangerous without somebody willing to fire it at innocent people. It is the people who do these things who make up the actual problem. Yes, soft gun laws allow them to access items to carry out their actions more easily or more quickly than they would normally do but at the same time strict gun laws wouldn't prevent these people from doing what they want to do.

Klein the laws have changed after the Erfurt massacre. The only chance to get a weapon is on the black market and thats difficult + very dangerous without connections.

But then again, even with those gun laws, only the bad people can get guns, good people can't get guns to protect themselves with.

No matter which way you look at it, the root of the problem is screwed up people, and until these people are unfucked they're going to be causing problems. Its the same thing with Bin Laden and terrorism. People think killing Bin Laden will end terrorism forever, but terrorism is a mentality and "lifestyle", not a person.

Bin Laden is not a fucked up person imo. If u lived in a country that is often fucked by the states you would be likely to follow him.

Dunno if flying airplanes into buildings is the way to go though, but dropping bombs on iraqi children isnt either

I really agree. Although i strongly disagree with Bin Laden's methods i somehow admire people that want to change something in the world and actually go ahead and try to change it. It's not that hard at all to see him as a man fighting for freedom instead of a terrorist. His ways are still wrong of course.

Quote from -Stratesiz-

That's might be correct, but it's still naive as the underlying problems are far greater. There will always be troubled families as long as there is injustice, poverty and whatnot. That's what people should be focusing on.Nevertheless, violence is a fact of life and strongly correlated with a person's economical and social status. A weapon can be your fist, a rock, a knife, a pistol, a rifle, etc. The easier is its to obtain a weapon of greater power the greater the incentive to use it. The easier it becomes, the greater the temptation. The greater the weapons, the greater the damage, the greater the power a person can have. What if you could buy trip mines or hand grenades from a store? Would people use them?

Just look at places such as Colombia. Poverty, injustice and easy accessibility to guns.

Removing guns wouldn't eliminate the underlying problems. Nevertheless it would minimize the consequences, while the actual problems would be worked on.

Quoted for troof. I think Stratty is the only one who understands this complex issue

Quote from Lurker

No matter which way you look at it, the root of the problem is screwed up people, and until these people are unfucked they're going to be causing problems. Its the same thing with Bin Laden and terrorism. People think killing Bin Laden will end terrorism forever, but terrorism is a mentality and "lifestyle", not a person.

LOLZ I doubt anyone believes killing OBL ends terrorism

What I don't understand here is that there are alot of people who are blaming videogame violence, then there are those who say "it's not videogame violence it's gun control laws" but the thing most of you don't see that after this all about 90% of the people are just blaming things, wether it is gun laws, videogames, bad parenting, bullies and the list goes on. It is a defence mechanism, you blame my videogames I blame your laws, they blame our laws I blame your bad parenting and so on, this most likely comes to an end the circular motion which propably went on in the mind of most of those kids who did the killings. You add all these supposed accusations and you get a step closer to truth, but is the truth something we are looking for? We just want to present our own opinion which is to blame something.

At the end we might not be pointing fingers at eachother, we might as well be pointing our fingers to the real problem, but we don't see it because we are too busy looking at the tip of our fingers.

hmmm.

The blame might be on the parents and classmates for lack of support/teasing/etc, but there is no way anyone is going to 'fix' any of that. There will always be teasing in school, there will always be shitty parents. There will always be psychopath kids who can't handle this stuff.

As hard as it is for me to say, outlawing firearms is the only logical way to reduce the damages of said psychopaths.

But we've forgotten something important - There is a weapon far more dangerous than a gun that is also far easier to get. Remember, you have to be 21 to buy a gun, highschoolers aren't 21. Granted their parents might have one, but not everyone's parents have a gun, nevermind the freakin arsenals that many of these highschool rampagers go in with.

Bombs. There is no way to outlaw bombs, since they can be very easily constructed out of some basic household materials. Put a few pipe bombs in a classroom full of kids... The damages would be far worse than a gun. A pistol only holds at most 20 shots. A pipe bomb can be covered in nails and filled with ball bearings. Far more horrific damage than a gun.

Remember the psychos at Columbine planted several bombs around the school.. thank God they didn't set them off.

If these kids are crazy enough to march into school with guns, I have no doubt that they'd spend a few hours the day before building a bomb or two if they couldn't get a gun.

Quote

He then blasted his way though the metal detector at the entrance, killing the security guard.

- A lot of good security guards and metal detectors do! (Great, now they're going to have army personel at each entrance, like they do at airport terminals.)

Quote from twiz

hmmm.But we've forgotten something important - There is a weapon far more dangerous than a gun that is also far easier to get. Bombs.

Evrything can be used as weapon. U could kill hundreds with ur pencil, or burn half california with ur lighter. U could also elect president Bush

i'm schizophrenic

so i know what its like to be in a homicidal state of mind and it is not pretty, your parents can have all the lecutres in the world my mom did an excellent job, no one ever picked on me and i was never felt left out yet i STILL felt homicidal and had a hatred for people.

now, i know i shouldn't access a gun, and i'm diagnosed schizophrenic so i cannot buy one if i tried (luckily gun laws are at least that good).

i don't want to ever hold a gun because i don't know if i would be able to handle myself.

its just something that you can't pin point the cause on, at all.

its not hte parents, the parents could've talked and raised good like the colombine kids parent's did.

it will always remain squarely on the person and how their luck of chance they perceived the world in a horrible way where they would want to kill someone.

period.

too much of global ops and counter-strike maybye..?

Ok, so he had a black trench coat, and was a goth kid, liked nazi's and talked about shooting up the school, and no one mentioned anything to the teachers/parents/police......These days, if someone even mentions the word Terrorist, or Bomb on a plane, you are arrested on the spot!. Same should be true for in schools.

I was surprised that amongst all the text in the article there wasn't a mention of a video game such as "Grand theft......" Having gone to high school in England first and the again in the US, I can say the days of people bringing pot or alcohol to school are over, now its metal detectors to detect weapons

What most of you are obviously forgetting is that USA is not the only place this happens, granted it is the place where they happen almost yearly BUT they happen here in europe too, where we have pretty strict gun laws, not a single gun in sight for miles, but these kids still get guns and run rampart in schools.

But this is where it all goes out of the window, why these things happen in schools? Ok these places are the ones that we spent most of the time when we are young, but there are far less psychopath kids blasting everyone at malls or downtown, these do happen non the less, if you go crazy and think to shoot few people and then shoot yourself why pick up school? Maybe our school system is just plain wrong, it stacks pressure on us when we are most fragile, young age, and our parents are too busy to help us out, but they are not too busy to say a bad thing about your lousy grades. In many countries in asia, kids kill themselfs if they get bad grades because they think they don't have any future, well in a competitive environment like that it can be true, and shame is the worst thing there is in that culture.

There are lot less these kinds of agressions in poor countries where there are very little schools, if you are looking for what I m blaming, it's the western culture and society, "if there can happen a crime, we are all responsible".

So conclusion? Who knows, who the fuck knows. Western civilization is sick and it is showing in our children and we just turn the other cheek, maybe we know that there are not right answeres here, and maybe we know the reasons, we are just powerless in front of our own creation, the society that we created and we set the rules for the game and we didn't point referee, now we have to just play even tho the rules are eating us away. It's a Star Wars reference but I'm going to toss it in just to lighten the mood, but to make you think "the circle is closing".

Peace out.