Conservative Religious Right crosses the line in Florida.

Quote from GrayFox

Comparing religion to mathematics?

Says the guy who believes in a god called Mundaamuno :roll:

Quote from Steppenwolf

Kosmo i never started an argument. I told my opinion and my experience then other people laughed at it and told me that i talk shit. That annoys me and its hard for me to shut up in such a situation.

I didn't accuse you of starting an argument, I just pointed out that you should not even go there, let him think he is right, what if he thinks he is right even tho he has not first hand experience about what he is saying, he has just proven that he is more full of shit than he accuses you being.

You are right

if anyone wants to read an intelligent argument on behalf of intelligent design, google up 'Behe' or 'mouse trap.' It presents a scientifically logical theory of intelligent design. Im not a proponent of the theory nor am i religious at all, i just think its important to keep an open mind in this area.

Be aware that evolution is by no means a perfect theory, there are so many organic systems that transcend simple mutation, in the sense that without the whole system evolving at once, it becomes redundant, like a wristwatch thats missing a single gear. heres some genetic examples;

The eyeball; requires rods, cones, lens, photonic sensors of some sort, an aperture system. Lacking any element its totally useless.

The central nervous system; i dont really need to explain this, just consider the level of conciousness we have as humans, how does that evolve out of a single celled organism.

Einstein never needed to question his belief in god because he took the vast complexity, and perfection (even the very existence) of the physical systems which govern our universe to be a greater proof of divinity than anything.

I haven't really been following this debate, but I'd like to point out that your eyeball example has a hole in it in that if you have 2 organisms of a species, and one is lacking one of the things essential to its survival (in this case, its eyesight) this organism is more susceptible to not surving. As such, evolution has worked in this sense. In the end, you'd find it more probable the person whose eyesight is good would survive.

"The eyeball; requires rods, cones, lens, photonic sensors of some sort, an aperture system. Lacking any element its totally useless."

Sure, it shows evidence of intelligent design, but it also shows how evolution has worked as well.

Quote from Steppenwolf

Tequila just because you dont know what i talk about doesnt mean that its shit. You better read some books or make your own experiences before you call it shit."Albert Hofmann: LSD - My Problem Child" is a good beginning.

If you dont like drugs try it with meditation or holothrophic breathing.

Guess you missed the smilie. I don't mind drugs, or who uses them, at all. I just found what you wrote to be the most pretentious drivel I've heard in a long while.

Drugs the deepest experience ever? Perhaps for a teenager. Life has more to offer in the long run.

Quote from Lurker

"The eyeball; requires rods, cones, lens, photonic sensors of some sort, an aperture system. Lacking any element its totally useless."

Sure, it shows evidence of intelligent design, but it also shows how evolution has worked as well.

my point was that theres no progressive way for an eye to evolve since it either functions completely or not at all. Not that the genetic trait would propagate and develop in many species (as it undoubtedly has)

I think posteh had a really good point in the end, creationism or intelligent design if true would have made us what we are, but we are still evolving, if god created evolution after he created us and animals, is it actually intelligent design? It's like god saying "better not risk it, I have made man perfect but let's just add evolution that he stays that way in the foreseeable future", the so called intelligent design breaks to pieces, god is actually a science kid not knowing what he is doing.

The eye is just a cheap trick to lure ppl into believing intelligent design. The eye would work if it had no rods, it would just work diffrently, just like many animals have 'eyes' which work diffrently

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It's like god saying "better not risk it, I have made man perfect but let's just add evolution that he stays that way in the foreseeable future", the so called intelligent design breaks to pieces, god is actually a science kid not knowing what he is doing.

All life evolves, not just humans. We just need it to survive, just like our heart. Our heart doesnt break intelligent design to pieces, neither does evolution. I think Grayfox is the living proof that intelligent design has failed :roll:

Quote from RD

The eye is just a cheap trick to lure ppl into believing intelligent design. The eye would work if it had no rods, it would just work diffrently, just like many animals have 'eyes' which work diffrently

All life evolves, not just humans. We just need it to survive, just like our heart. Our heart doesnt break intelligent design to pieces, neither does evolution. I think Grayfox is the living proof that intelligent design has failed :roll:

How exactly evolution does not break the intelligent design? The intelligent design suggest that to the point where is was created everything was balanced on a tip of surgical knife, it is that what makes it so intelligent after all, and if there is evolution there is no control, if there is no control the whole design fails, it's like designing a car and making the gas a on and off switch, the luck of the driver will decide the outcome of the cruise.

Quote from RD

I think Grayfox is the living proof that intelligent design has failed :roll:

HAHAHHAAHAAAA!!! (pity laughs)

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he eye is just a cheap trick to lure ppl into believing intelligent design. The eye would work if it had no rods, it would just work diffrently, just like many animals have 'eyes' which work diffrently

Indeed, that eye thing pissess me off. It's touted out all the friggin time and it's complete BS. Think about it, photosensitive cells give you an evolutionary advantage even without any focusing mechanism and so do various other parts of the system. It's all based on misconceptions and false assumptions about the evolutionary process.

Quote from Kosmo

How exactly evolution does not break the intelligent design? The intelligent design suggest that to the point where is was created everything was balanced on a tip of surgical knife, it is that what makes it so intelligent after all, and if there is evolution there is no control, if there is no control the whole design fails, it's like designing a car and making the gas a on and off switch, the luck of the driver will decide the outcome of the cruise.

Your heart evolves when u get older as well, it grows just like your whole body, but it doesnt break intelligent design does it?

Evolution doesnt mean there is no control. The koran for example describes guided evolution (guided by allah ofcourse :roll: ). One of his billion nicknames is the evolver. And strangely enough... this was written a millenium before the theory of evolution Jesus

Quote from Tequila

Guess you missed the smilie. I don't mind drugs, or who uses them, at all. I just found what you wrote to be the most pretentious drivel I've heard in a long while.Drugs the deepest experience ever? Perhaps for a teenager. Life has more to offer in the long run.

What is your picture of drugs? Im sure you think of drunked people, junkies etc. You should know that there are very different drugs out there. Most of them are useless to have a deep or spiritual experience but some of them (entheogenics like Mescaline, Psylocibine, DMT, Salvia to name a few natural ones) are the most powerfull tools the nature (or god if you believe in him) has given us humans.

This can only understand who knows the experience. Shamen of all cultures have used these substances over thousands of years to get in contact with god or "travel through time and space". There are theorys that these plants were the reason at all why people started to develope the idea of god.

Before i made my experiments with these kind of drugs i was an atheist who only believed in science. Now i still believe in science and things like the evolution theory but i have also learned to believe in the existance of god. I know now that there is more behind reality then we could ever imagine in our usual state of conciousness.

I'm too lazy to write more now. I know that most people will never understand it and will laugh at it. But who wants to know more can read here:

http://%7boption%7d

Its a online library full with books and texts about psychedelic experiences, sciene, analysis etc.. They have also the book from famous Albert Hoffmann.

I understand what u mean Step. U ar absolutely right, but still ease up on the drugs even if u want to experiment

Quote from Pericolos0

how do you know drugs arent creating a hallucination so realistic that you start believing it?

Ofcourse drugs do that. But ur brain without drugs also creates a reality so realistic we believe it

Quote from RD

Your heart evolves when u get older as well, it grows just like your whole body, but it doesnt break intelligent design does it?

Evolution doesnt mean there is no control. The koran for example describes guided evolution (guided by allah ofcourse :roll: ). One of his billion nicknames is the evolver. And strangely enough... this was written a millenium before the theory of evolution Jesus

You are starting to sound like some sort of religious zealoth, and how does it proof that evolution is controlled because it was said so in koran? Besides if god/household deity #x is in control of evolution wouldn't that break the all knowingness of god and proof that he still is a science kid not knowing what he is doing and by evolution he is making sure that he minimizes the damages done to his grand design?

Besides, I wouldn't call heart growing in time 'evolution', your nose and ears grow through your life and it's not evolution, they can't sprout eyes and start speaking, nor can heart.

RD: i dont make experiments with such drugs anymore. Its a few years ago now.

Peri: nobody can know what is real and what not. You can just believe it or not. And believing doesnt mean to know. Its completely relative like everything else in life. Nobody can know if god exists and nobody can know if nature laws are real or just a imagination that only works in our dimension of reality. Even if scientists find the world formula it would proove nothing. We would be stupid as before if we ask us the question "are we real?" or "does god exist?".