You can now sell content through Steam Workshop

Gabe getting downvoated to hell on Redit. Now I've seen everything.

ohhnoess...reddis is mad,

this is the best thing that has happened since; first. the creation of Steam, second: the creation of Steam Workshop, third: the creation of Steam Greenlight, hopefully we will see a Steam Asset Store or similar, that we already have in the other engines,

boy oh boy, wish I was 14 yo again, and launched hammer for the first time! this is the perfect time for new modders, old modders, people that havent realized they are modders to start/continue modding!

Here's that article

http://www.pcgamer.com/im-a-modder-i-deserve-compensation/

It's a fun discussion. I tried to be honest

DDOS'd?

Quote from Vilham

Sanctioned, quality control, held responsible. Those are the differences, I am amazed some of you are still defending this terrible system. It is so unbelievably anti consumer.

The system can and will likely change, but the concept is solid and the way forward.

As for responsibility: Steam can still take down mods that are offensive if that's your issue. Quality control will develop on its own given enough time and a large enough consumer base. I don't necessarily see the need for sanctioning mods, but if this is somehow an issue, developers will likely perform any necessary changes (see responsibility clause).

Quote from dux

Gabe getting downvoated to hell on Redit. Now I've seen everything.

Yeah, I just saw that. Gabe is probably one of the most popular people on the Internet and he's the CEO of Valve. One of the most popular game companies around. This is truly ground breaking. Plus, thousands of down votes. People are really pissed off about this. Which apparently is an understatement. No way that this idea can sustain itself with that much criticism. Look at how Microsoft did a 180 with the Xbox One due to such amount of criticism.

I like it how Bethesda is trying to justify the 45% cut in their latest blog: http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why…-mods-on-steam/

IMO by taking such a high precentage there are certain things you have to do as a developer. Like putting someone in charge of checking these mods before putting a price tag on them. And keeping the workshop clean so high quality mods are getting the exposure they deserve. But right now it sounds more like a money grab..

Looks like this feature is being removed from the Skyrim workshop and full refunds will be given if you purchased any mods: http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWor…632365253244218

Yes, Valve and Bethesda have decided to stop and remove the feature of paid mods.

https://twitter.com/BethesdaStudio…830223630098432

When they return the feature i hope they'll add/change the following things:

-Bigger revenue for the modders

-Quality management for mods which shall cost money

-"Pay what you want" option

Quote from Xanthi

I like it how Bethesda is trying to justify the 45% cut in their latest blog: http://www.bethblog.com/2015/04/27/why…-mods-on-steam/

Can you quote the text from the bethblog for me? I get linked to the german blog all the time.. Thx bethblog

Well, that was quick

To be honest I'm raging when I look at some comments, some players are so entitled to free stuff. Especially when these people have zero experience in the industry and assume any developper can get paid. Anyway, nothing new here. To play devil's advocate, it does seems backward to pay for stuffs nowadays.

As a side note, it's comforting to see Valve is listening to their customers.

Quote from El_Exodus

Can you quote the text from the bethblog for me? I get linked to the german blog all the time.. Thx bethblog

Quote

Update: After discussion with Valve, and listening to our community, paid mods are being removed from Steam Workshop. Even though we had the best intentions, the feedback has been clear – this is not a feature you want. Your support means everything to us, and we hear you.

Original Post: We have a long history with modding, dating back to 2002 with The Elder Scrolls Construction Set. It’s our belief that our games become something much more with the promise of making it your own. Even if you never try a mod, the idea you could do anything is at the core of our game experiences. Over the years we have met much resistance to the time and attention we put into making our games heavily moddable. The time and costs involved, plus the legal hurdles, haven’t made it easy. Modding is one of the reasons Oblivion was re-rated from T to M, costing us millions of dollars. While others in the industry went away from it, we pushed more toward it.

We are always looking for new ways to expand modding. Our friends at Valve share many of the same beliefs in mods and created the Steam Workshop with us in 2012 for Skyrim, making it easier than ever to search and download mods. Along with Skyrim Nexus and other sites, our players have many great ways to get mods.

Despite all that, it’s still too small in our eyes. Only 8% of the Skyrim audience has ever used a mod. Less than 1% has ever made one.

In our early discussions regarding Workshop with Valve, they presented data showing the effect paid user content has had on their games, their players, and their modders. All of it hugely positive. They showed, quite clearly, that allowing content creators to make money increased the quality and choice that players had. They asked if we would consider doing the same.

This was in 2012 and we had many questions, but only one demand. It had to be open, not curated like the current models. At every step along the way with mods, we have had many opportunities to step in and control things, and decided not to. We wanted to let our players decide what is good, bad, right, and wrong. We will not pass judgment on what they do. We’re even careful about highlighting a modder on this blog for that very reason.

Three years later and Valve has finally solved the technical and legal hurdles to make such a thing possible, and they should be celebrated for it. It wasn’t easy. They are not forcing us, or any other game, to do it. They are opening a powerful new choice for everyone.

We believe most mods should be free. But we also believe our community wants to reward the very best creators, and that they deserve to be rewarded. We believe the best should be paid for their work and treated like the game developers they are. But again, we don’t think it’s right for us to decide who those creators are or what they create.

We also don’t think we should tell the developer what to charge. That is their decision, and it’s up to the players to decide if that is a good value. We’ve been down similar paths with our own work, and much of this gives us déjà vu from when we made the first DLC: Horse Armor. Horse Armor gave us a start into something new, and it led to us giving better and better value to our players with DLC like Shivering Isles, Point Lookout, Dragonborn and more. We hope modders will do the same.

Opening up a market like this is full of problems. They are all the same problems every software developer faces (support, theft, etc.), and the solutions are the same. Valve has done a great job addressing those, but there will be new ones, and we’re confident those will get solved over time also. If the system shows that it needs curation, we’ll consider it, but we believe that should be a last resort.

There are certainly other ways of supporting modders, through donations and other options. We are in favor of all of them. One doesn’t replace another, and we want the choice to be the community’s. Yet, in just one day, a popular mod developer made more on the Skyrim paid workshop than he made in all the years he asked for donations.

Revenue Sharing

Many have questioned the split of the revenue, and we agree this is where it gets debatable. We’re not suggesting it’s perfect, but we can tell you how it was arrived at.

First Valve gets 30%. This is standard across all digital distributions services and we think Valve deserves this. No debate for us there.

The remaining is split 25% to the modder and 45% to us. We ultimately decide this percentage, not Valve.

Is this the right split? There are valid arguments for it being more, less, or the same. It is the current industry standard, having been successful in both paid and free games. After much consultation and research with Valve, we decided it’s the best place to start.

This is not some money grabbing scheme by us. Even this weekend, when Skyrim was free for all, mod sales represented less than 1% of our Steam revenue.

The percentage conversation is about assigning value in a business relationship. How do we value an open IP license? The active player base and built in audience? The extra years making the game open and developing tools? The original game that gets modded? Even now, at 25% and early sales data, we’re looking at some modders making more money than the studio members whose content is being edited.

We also look outside at how open IP licenses work, with things like Amazon’s Kindle Worlds, where you can publish fan fiction and get about 15-25%, but that’s only an IP license, no content or tools.

The 25% cut has been operating on Steam successfully for years, and it’s currently our best data point. More games are coming to Paid Mods on Steam soon, and many will be at 25%, and many won’t. We’ll figure out over time what feels right for us and our community. If it needs to change, we’ll change it.

The Larger Issue of the Gaming Community and Modding

This is where we are listening, and concerned, the most. Despite seeming to sit outside the community, we are part of it. It is who we are. We don’t come to work, leave and then ‘turn off’. We completely understand the potential long-term implications allowing paid mods could mean. We think most of them are good. Some of them are not good. Some of them could hurt what we have spent so long building. We have just as much invested in it as our players.

Some are concerned that this whole thing is leading to a world where mods are tied to one system, DRM’d and not allowed to be freely accessed. That is the exact opposite of what we stand for. Not only do we want more mods, easier to access, we’re anti-DRM as far as we can be. Most people don’t know, but our very own Skyrim DLC has zero DRM. We shipped Oblivion with no DRM because we didn’t like how it affected the game.

There are things we can control, and things we can’t. Our belief still stands that our community knows best, and they will decide how modding should work. We think it’s important to offer choice where there hasn’t been before.

We will do whatever we need to do to keep our community and our games as healthy as possible. We hope you will do the same.

Bethesda Game Studios

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Btw, wouldn't it make sense to move this topic to Gaming Discussion?

Yes indeed, moved.

If this was EA they'd never back track. This is what makes valve great. They made an unpopular decision and did what the majority wanted.

isn't this Bethesda backing out?

Anyway, there's no point doing this if it's not properly thought through, not worth the negative press for a few bucks.

Quote from SpronyvanJohnson

Yeah, I just saw that. Gabe is probably one of the most popular people on the Internet and he's the CEO of Valve. One of the most popular game companies around. This is truly ground breaking. Plus, thousands of down votes. People are really pissed off about this. Which apparently is an understatement. No way that this idea can sustain itself with that much criticism. Look at how Microsoft did a 180 with the Xbox One due to such amount of criticism.

[Blocked Image: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ce/dd/4e/cedd4ee4e4caa2a9c1d115795906c656.jpg]

Valve will bring this back, I can only think this was canceled because there wasn't enough resources to handle the situation. Valve introduced the idea because they believe in it and Bethesda loves whatever they do, so if this doesn't come out for skyrim again, then for Justice Scepter - that's my name for the new Elder Scrolls - you read it here first (or whatever they will call it).

For those concerned that "pay what you want" doesn't work, I think you should reflect on the success the store had in a week: Bethesda says some modders were set to make more money than their own developers, is not like people starts buying mods because they are paid, I'm sure most of people owned this mods, knew they were good and wanted to reward the authors.

Valve has removed this, but I'm sure it is coming back, Gabe promised this is the future of Steam and gaming for what they're concerned.

Quote from Xanthi

I like it how Bethesda is trying to justify the 45% cut in their latest blog

IMO by taking such a high precentage there are certain things you have to do as a developer. Like putting someone in charge of checking these mods before putting a price tag on them. And keeping the workshop clean so high quality mods are getting the exposure they deserve. But right now it sounds more like a money grab..

I agree with the main point, but you don't need and you shouldn't decide who's mod can have a price tag or change that.I'm keen toward a curated store, like App Store is but there are counter arguments just as good. For starters, I'm not sure a game dev will make enough to justify the curators. And what if the dev is a small indie, they'll never have the resources to do that, but most certainly you need to give them credit and a share.

I really do hope a better system is put in place right from the start of the new elder scrolls title.

I honestly don't see what the issue of this 25% business is about. The steam workshop allows you to distribute your mod to such a huge number of people that 25% has the potential to beat any salary many are capable of earning in a studio job (assuming they are even able to get a studio job and don't work in their local supermarket). Of course the work has to be good and you have enough content. And so many people are latching onto the 25% argument to make Valve/Bethesda seem evil and to support their argument, but at the end of the day it doesn't effect the paying customer in the slightest but is an issue between the three parties involved. I have yet to see any modders come out and speak against this.

And something I have failed to see mentioned is with the csgo workshop, the quality of content has far surpassed anything that css ever had released. Having a monetary incentive dramatically increases the quality in every corner of the modding scene. I remember looking at the workshop about the time operation bravo was being prepared and thinking that during the space between operation payback and operation bravo, the new maps released in both quality and quantity completely dwarfed what css had, and this was only a matter of months. Take a look at the workshop now, over a year later, and compare it to css.

Also, with the constant revenue stream of the operations as well as the cases, valve has been able to constantly keep the game updated and making it a much better product even if you ignore all the new maps and skins. Had Skyrim had a system like this from the very start, I imagine it would be a very different game today with the revenue from mods being able to pay the salary of a few people still working on the game. But as things stand right now, there is no reason at all to have anyone working on the game as their job will be producing a negative income for the company.

Maybe I am looking at things too optimistically, but paid user content has improved csgo so much and I doubt very much it would be in such a good state without the paid content. So I personally believe paid user content is a win for everyone involved. Gamers get better user content and studio support, modders get paid and are able to create more and better content and the dev studio is paid allowing them to justify the price of supporting the game long after release.

And I have to say I am more than disappointed at some of the comments on the PC Gamer article directed towards FMP. Such as how he should get a real job or how he doesn't deserve to be paid but they do deserve free mods. Just makes me shake my head and facepalm.