Classic/old maps waiting for revamp in CS:GO

Chateau site with all the windows was a nightmare

Quote from unremarkable player

I was looking at it about a month ago, one of the CS:GO ports, to see what would need to be done. Some of them are 1:1, some have some minor edits, but they're all pretty bad. I just remember that map being a nightmare at times on T because of the choke points and lack of any flanking or rotating paths.

I would be interested in co-developing Chateau with you if you're interested in giving it a layout and game play face lift since there's already a few ports to CSS & CSGO.

Otherwise I'll end up tackling something on my own with some Chateau influence.

One of the ports was done by my friend, I assisted him in porting it.

And yes, I am fully aware Chateau is pretty bad in terms of layout.

It would be interesting to try and modify layout so it fits the terms of competitiveness.

However, I'm really more of a graphical/level designer, so if all I end up doing is probably a graphical remake.

When you say co-develop, let me know what you mean by that (I'm fine with collaborating with other developers, I'm just curious as to how you want the process to go).

I just started working on de_collapse for CSGO

Quote from TheGuma

I was looking at it about a month ago, one of the CS:GO ports, to see what would need to be done. Some of them are 1:1, some have some minor edits, but they're all pretty bad. I just remember that map being a nightmare at times on T because of the choke points and lack of any flanking or rotating paths.

I would be interested in co-developing Chateau with you if you're interested in giving it a layout and game play face lift since there's already a few ports to CSS & CSGO.

Otherwise I'll end up tackling something on my own with some Chateau influence.

One of the ports was done by my friend, I assisted him in porting it.

And yes, I am fully aware Chateau is pretty bad in terms of layout.

It would be interesting to try and modify layout so it fits the terms of competitiveness.

However, I'm really more of a graphical/level designer, so if all I end up doing is probably a graphical remake.

When you say co-develop, let me know what you mean by that (I'm fine with collaborating with other developers, I'm just curious as to how you want the process to go).

50% split of responsibility, either map together and design together, or map/design separately.

I really think Valve could learn something from Blizzard's StarCraft 2 here, where the map pool get switched up every season. (a season in SC2 is approx. a month). One could argue that a new map does have a larger impact in CS:GO than it does in SC2 but I still believe it would be good to sort of brute force people into playing other maps than Dust2, Inferno & Mirage all day.

I mean even now that Train is in the "active duty" group and Nuke isn't. There's still double the queue time to find one on Train. People would rather play some horribly imbalanced map they feel at home at, rather than trying to learn new maps. (And Train is not even new!)

I would love to see remake of famous community maps like cs_mari, de_snowfacility, de_callipolia and 3DMike maps.

Quote from Vaya

that looks sick! your next project?

Problem with with these CEVO/CPL etc maps is there's no chance they'll ever get into an operation

Why?

Quote from laminutederire

Not if maps are chosen randomly, I mean if you're good, you're good no matter what. In real life when you have a sport match, you do not know the place like your pocket, but if you know what you are doing everything goes fine, you train a while before the match to ne accustomed with the playground and then you show what you can do. At least it is my personal opinion

Normal sports are played on a consistent ground. They are always played on pitches / fields / greens that are the same size, at best you might get a slightly different surface like tennis' grass and clay. The closest I could think of to CSGO and suddenly changing a map would be something like Golf or F1, both require skilled sportsmen/women but you need to know where you're going, especially when you're flying along at 200mph.

A large portion of competitive CSGO is tactics, which relies on heavy use of the suite of grenades provided. You can't make good, reliable ones up as you go along. You need time to train with the timings of them after you've learnt/experimented with them.

I do think more map would keep things interesting, but teams need a suitable amount of time to learn them. The recent changes to dust2 will be very interesting as what was primarily an aim map, now has a chance of some real nade meta.

Quote from unremarkable player

I was looking at it about a month ago, one of the CS:GO ports, to see what would need to be done. Some of them are 1:1, some have some minor edits, but they're all pretty bad. I just remember that map being a nightmare at times on T because of the choke points and lack of any flanking or rotating paths.

I would be interested in co-developing Chateau with you if you're interested in giving it a layout and game play face lift since there's already a few ports to CSS & CSGO.

Otherwise I'll end up tackling something on my own with some Chateau influence.

One of the ports was done by my friend, I assisted him in porting it.

And yes, I am fully aware Chateau is pretty bad in terms of layout.

It would be interesting to try and modify layout so it fits the terms of competitiveness.

However, I'm really more of a graphical/level designer, so if all I end up doing is probably a graphical remake.

When you say co-develop, let me know what you mean by that (I'm fine with collaborating with other developers, I'm just curious as to how you want the process to go).

50% split of responsibility, either map together and design together, or map/design separately.

I mean, we could just start off with the CSS version of de_chateau and appropriately modify it's layout textures and models, don't you think? I bet it would be quite more efficient.

Making new textures would be quite a hassle, to be honest, I'd very much rather add some bump maps and other improvements instead of remaking them all.

As for layout, I would remove almost every breakable window on Bombsite A and only windows on choke points where CT's could set up (and be smoked off as well).

Much of the corridors and vertical-ness would need to be removed as to simplify the map.

I'll try and port the CSS version for a start. I already did, actually, but I can't seem to get all the models to work (finding the missing models from CSS using tools like GCFScape takes a lot of time unless they are all located in one folder).

Let me know if you know of efficient way to locate all the error models and fix them up, I'd very much rather base the map off CSS version and majorly modify it.

What do you think?

CPL still owns the rights for all the layouts, I believe, for sole use in their (defunct) CS 1.6 leagues.

I thought Cevo was the same but it looks to be a lot more open. Tuscan was made as a licence-free cevo version of CPL_mill

But Brute "owns" the rights to Tuscan, and the CS:GO version of Tuscan sucks.

I wish he wasn't so strict about his "property" (which is not even an original layout)

so that other people could make their own remakes freely.

EDIT: OH MY GOSH SOMEONE REMAKE THIS

Quote from TheGuma

I mean, we could just start off with the CSS version of de_chateau and appropriately modify it's layout textures and models, don't you think? I bet it would be quite more efficient.

Making new textures would be quite a hassle, to be honest, I'd very much rather add some bump maps and other improvements instead of remaking them all.

As for layout, I would remove almost every breakable window on Bombsite A and only windows on choke points where CT's could set up (and be smoked off as well).

Much of the corridors and vertical-ness would need to be removed as to simplify the map.

I'll try and port the CSS version for a start. I already did, actually, but I can't seem to get all the models to work (finding the missing models from CSS using tools like GCFScape takes a lot of time unless they are all located in one folder).

Let me know if you know of efficient way to locate all the error models and fix them up, I'd very much rather base the map off CSS version and majorly modify it.

What do you think?

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Importing block work is fine but I do have really good reference pictures from my latest visits to Italy and Spain that I thought could be useful. I think that there needs to be consideration for improving the game play because of the CT nature of the original version. It didn't really play out as a 3-lane map because 2 lanes merged into 1 and the choke points were always in CT favour.

Some of the windows should be removed, possibly the rafters or something. I don't mind the upper layout but I think it needs to be refined so that there's at least some reason to use it; better access to B etc.

Quote

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Quote from TheGuma

But Brute "owns" the rights to Tuscan, and the CS:GO version of Tuscan sucks.

I wish he wasn't so strict about his "property" (which is not even an original layout)

so that other people could make their own remakes freely.

Toscan was alright, but why remake with a similar name? Why not name it something else... Toscan was a little too similar and a decent CS:GO make, but could be something else. Tuscan is the wrong name for that map anyway.

Quote from unremarkable player

Importing block work is fine but I do have really good reference pictures from my latest visits to Italy and Spain that I thought could be useful. I think that there needs to be consideration for improving the game play because of the CT nature of the original version. It didn't really play out as a 3-lane map because 2 lanes merged into 1 and the choke points were always in CT favour.

Some of the windows should be removed, possibly the rafters or something. I don't mind the upper layout but I think it needs to be refined so that there's at least some reason to use it; better access to B etc.

Quote

[Blocked Image: http://www.justinmitchell.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_20140816_122058.jpg][Blocked Image: http://www.justinmitchell.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_20140816_122730.jpg]

If you want to change the Theme and go for something Alhambra-esque I have good pictures of every room you could visit, if I remember right, and if you need/want more

However the original theme was more based on castles in France, I think I have pictures too!

Tbh i quite like the rather unique nature of the bombsites on Chateau, but of course they should be a bit simplified and made more competitive. Same goes for the theme, it would be disappointed to see see Chateau not taking place at a chateau.

laminutederire Alhambra was amazing I took I think 300 or so photos while I was there

RivFader well yeah, it is Chateau and it can take place at a Chateau, no question. I'm just not a fan of the layout and it never really worked. I remember in most games players were desperate to team switch to CTs.

you'll have to do something about the upper level of A. It's like one giant camping spot

I'm like 3/4 done blocking out cs_tire

I have decided that I'll make de_chateau graybox version from scratch instead of using CSS version. This would allow for more creativity and I wouldn't need to deal with porting and changing things.

Epic BUMP!

I'm posting this here because I feel like it's too early to post it both on a new thread and in WIP thread.

Since everyone who were interested in participating with development of Chateau got sloppy (I'm a guy who works efficiently, so I just couldn't wait for everyone to get time to work on this project and begun working on it myself).

So here's some progress I've done, for now, I'll mainly direct the post to the changes in theme.

Here's a picture of T- Spawn.

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In previous versions, T spawn used to be a swamp in middle of nowhere surrounded by hills. It didn't make sense, because T's spawned in a dead end, and I had no idea how they got there over the hills. So I changed T spawn to entrance into chateau area. Idea is, the place is set in French chateau museum. There will be french signs around, the map will feel more like an modern exposition rather than something set 50 years back.

The back of the T spawn will have some pine trees and a fancy road, I might as well as add the dead guard guy since Nuke is getting a revamp and Train already got one. Miss that guy.

Anyways, for this shot I've used default library models. It looks good, and for a graybox version I don't need to mess with brushes ETC so it's easy to change later.

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This is the area you might remember, first things first, the swampy hill was now removed and replaced with a small shack where tools for cleaning/preserving the chateau will be put. It used to be very easy to get on the hill, however, I've positioned the crates so it is a skill jump just like on Nuke. It will be more rewarding once you get up on the shack.

Here's a different angle shot...

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Here's the WIP tunnel, got some sweet arches going!

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And here's the mansion entrance shot!

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First of all, in previous Chateau versions the Bombsite A didn't make much sense... Both in terms of design and in terms of gameplay.

The roof in front was HUGE. I don't know what supports for the roof they had to have, but It definitely did not hold up so many tiles.

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In the Source version, Chateau reused a lot of Inferno props. Poles, lamps, lights, mostly everything besides the textures. In CS:GO, Inferno was a port at first too, but then Valve updated most of the props to look more up to date (including the poles).

Although I'm using a lot of Inferno props as well, I couldn't find any proper models for a window. Cbble models were castle-look alike, and Inferno did not have many window models that were not as modern. So I decided to port CSS versions Chateau models, not all of them.

First change that I've did was add $detail to the model textures. I did not want to remake the textures completely, as I am not an expert, so I've added that as a band aid. Valve did the same on quite a bunch of ported props.

The texture also had specular maps, but they were sloppy. The specular maps only made the window to be reflective, and it was a sloppy way of doing it.

I've made the WHOLE model use envmap bumpmaps, but on a very very low scale so that the effect does not look obtrusive and unrealistic. I've had to edit the normal maps so that the windows themselves had flat reflections, because the texture was a single file for the window model.

I've changed the window texture too. As for all the other textures, they were yellow, so I toned them down in color and contrast and also made them look white-ish, to fit with the theme.

Hopefully all these neat changes will help the models fit a bit better.

Either way, Chateau is currently my side project but It shouldn't take me long to finish it. Much like cs_max, I've finished cs_max in just one week!

de_deadlock would be amazing!