Dahell is happening in Kiev

    I don't like to make any comments about what is happening back there, cause it is VERY complex topic. That girl i've posted before (i hope you got that) was a decoy, and it was just a good PR of the opposition IMO.
    As for the civil war, as soon as the first shots vere fired (from both sides) this shit got a WAR title. Srsly fucked up situation there. Remember Militia (police) they got theirs orders and they need to try to keep the city safe (its not like 110% of Kiev is out there trowing shit at them). On the other side, there was a peaceful demonstration that turned into crazy crowd of ppl with live ammo !
    Me, and my eastern friends know how we are. We like shit like that, we like to be aggressive, and i'm SURE most of protesters and doing what they are doing now, becouse they like it and not for the CAUSE.


    And once again, if we are not there, just watching the news, reading papers headers, WE DONT KNOW SHIT !

    Quote from Tisky

    I think that the people in Ukraine clearly don´t want to be Putins bitches. Who tha hell can blame them?

    The most disturbing thing is the snipers picking of people without any guns. People that try to rescue others. Sick fucking bastards.


    Ugh... that's happening?

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    "civilians"

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1392746107

    still, i'm not taking sides here, but it's not black and white

    Both sides are wrong to use live ammo, but all in all, this is handled very poorly by the goverment imo.

    Swedish journalists on site reported that they were caught in sniper-fire. An unarmed peaceful old man got shot in the head. Why why why. One sniper is more fearful than one hundred police officers. Just saying.

    NSFL

    Quote

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    When things like that are happening, it's like throwing oil on fire, the only way to get things calm is for the Ukrainian government to resign, you don't extinguish fire by fire. But i guess now it's too late, maybe they don't resign because the government members have now too much to answer to. And they know what will happen of them if they have to be judged in court by the population and especially their rivals.


    edit : but as knj said, it's impossible to know, we just do speculations for our own distraction, and even though you are there in the ukrainian streets, you don't know a thing.


    And there is this quote i like in the prince of machiavel


    Quote

    When the duke occupied the Romagna he found it under the rule of weak masters, who rather plundered their subjects than ruled them, and gave them more cause for disunion than for union, so that the country was full of robbery, quarrels, and every kind of violence; and so, wishing to bring back peace and obedience to authority, he considered it necessary to give it a good governor. Thereupon he promoted Messer Ramiro d'Orco,(*) a swift and cruel man, to whom he gave the fullest power. This man in a short time restored peace and unity with the greatest success. Afterwards the duke considered that it was not advisable to confer such excessive authority, for he had no doubt but that he would become odious, so he set up a court of judgment in the country, under a most excellent president, wherein all cities had their advocates. And because he knew that the past severity had caused some hatred against himself, so, to clear himself in the minds of the people, and gain them entirely to himself, he desired to show that, if any cruelty had been practised, it had not originated with him, but in the natural sternness of the minister. Under this pretence he took Ramiro, and one morning caused him to be executed and left on the piazza at Cesena with the block and a bloody knife at his side. The barbarity of this spectacle caused the people to be at once satisfied and dismayed.


    Ugh... my word.

    "Swedish journalists". Allow me to lol. There is no such thing. EU bias is huge in all bodies of power and media in Sweden and much of western europe.


    This situation really fascinates me. I think Russia has its shit together on a whole other level than EU at the moment. Approval of EU is hitting new lows all the time in eu-country polls. The euro strangles the less competitive economies and boost german exports. People are fed up with Schengen (free movement of people within EU), especially in britain and france, and Schweiz recently voted to opt out from schengen and is now being punished by eu-bureaucrats for it.


    I don't think that pro-eu protestors know what they're asking for. I'd go for Russia/neutral if it was my decision.


    I'm not trying to defend the ukrainian government or the use of force. I know to little to take sides like that.

    The "ex" (?) Ukrainian president has a nice private collection - a zoo, a galeon, a old cars collection... waw !


    [Blocked Image: http://www.interpretermag.com/wp-content/upl…lBxIUAA_O49.jpg]

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    > http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-livebl…h-topples/#1345

    Welcome to Europe!


    Ukrainian games development company "Vostok Games"(project Survaruim) firing people, who not supporting euro-maidan.


    [Blocked Image: http://dtf.ru/image/i.php?id=71930&size=ruserpic]


    Today was fired  lead community mamanger Denis Ananiev, for publication on his personal blog information about the anti-maidan. In the office begins repressions.


    Before the Vostok Games he works on Blizzard France. Vostok games was founded by few developers from GSC Game World(who made the STALKER).

    It's official, Yanukovich has been removed via coup;


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26304842


    Now waiting to see what the US position will be on this, since they have this law where they don't have relations with countries where the leaders are removed via coups... they seemed to "forget" that one though when Egypt's Morsi got taken out....


    I need to go through my sources to find out more in depth, since I've been out of the loop the last two days due to lack of time...

    Quote from Pericolos0

    Don't fire people over their political opinions lol, that's not gonna help you in your quest to join europe.


    More pics of Yanukovych's compound: http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1007568.html


    hope someone is taking care of the animals


    lol whenever I see these palaces in poor countries, I always think how silly it is to have a mansion when you live in the middle of a junkyard...

    I've been watching some videos about this, and it is a much more complex situation than I initially thought. Here's a good interview that sheds some light into it:

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    Quote from Pericolos0

    Don't fire people over their political opinions lol, that's not gonna help you in your quest to join europe.


    More pics of Yanukovych's compound: http://zyalt.livejournal.com/1007568.html


    hope someone is taking care of the animals


    Holy sh*** o_O That's crazy !

    Yup Minos, it's much more complicated than all we can think about this situation. Thank for your video.

    Quote from Minos

    I've been watching some videos about this, and it is a much more complex situation than I initially thought. Here's a good interview that sheds some light into it:

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    Pretty much spot on. Russia is not so fussed about Ukraine joining the EU so long as their trade deals with Ukraine are not effected. However there is no way on Earth that Russia will allow Ukraine to join NATO, there's already enough tension with the baltic countries in the treaty bordering federal states and Russia will not allow herself to be encircled. West needs to understand that Ukraine as an independent state has had a very short history, with most of the current territory having been gifted from Imperial Russia and the USSR. Russia will always have legtimate interests and status within Ukraine.


    Anyway, the situation for Russia hasn't turned out so bad. Tymoshenko released with a potential to be the president can be very good for Russia, since her relations with Putin were quite healthy (including the signing of the deal with led to her power abuse charges). Even if the new government is somewhat anti-Russia, given the past semi-decent relationship with Yukashenko's presidency even when he was selling arms to the Georgians during the war in South Ossetia, anything's possible.


    Still... there is a lingering doubt as to the future of the nation given the obvious split between the country. Crimea is now considering the option of succeeding and joining up with Russia, several other Eastern parts such as Kharkiv have voiced objections over the events. A split of the country would fuck the economic situation completely, all of the major industries are in the East, imports/exports, fuels etc reside heavily in Donetsk, Dnipropetrovsk and other cities close to the border with Russia. I wouldn't say that there is an end to the crisis just yet, Viktor or no Viktor...


    Quote from FrieChamp

    You're making a lot of valid points but painting a bleak picture for the Ukraine's prospects of joining the EU in the future by refering to Turkey's state in the negotation talks is ludicrous. Turkey has its own set of problems and you know that, I'm sure. For the records here's a list of countries who have succesfully joined the EU in the past 30 years:


    Spain, Portugal, East Germany and West Berlin join to form Germany, Austria, Sweden, Finland, Malta, Cyprus, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia.


    At the end of the day, as a part of the EU or not, the Ukrainian people have a right to an unbiased court system. TBH I don't know how rampant corruption is though or if this is an exaggeration to fuel the fire. I'm definitely for obeying the democratic process as long as the elections aren't rigged. It's still hard for me to understand what got these protesters so fired up. Is Janukowitsch really selling the Ukraine out to Russia for personal enrichment?


    You're missing the point there, sure many countries have joined the EU in the last 30 years... but Turkey is one of those countries that the EU has teased about membership over and over, which is where I see the same situation with Ukraine in some ways... the possibility of trade agreements by signing the Association Agreement, yet no concrete statements that Ukraine can actually join the EU...


    As for corruption, yeah it definately exists, but Yanukovich didn't become the start of that, previous governments and facilities have been drenched in corruption as well, post Orange revolution Yukashenko included. The Oligarchs drive a lot of the politicial situations in Ukraine, like in Russia during the Yeltsin years (which Putin sacked 15 years ago) hence Ukraine has far more corruption today than Russia does.


    Quote from Tisky

    I think that the people in Western Ukraine clearly don´t want to be Putins bitches. Who tha hell can blame them?

    The most disturbing thing is the snipers picking of people without any guns. People that try to rescue others. Sick fucking bastards.


    Fixed for you... a lot of it derives from the anti-Russian sentiment that's focused on false history and the denial of any Russian influence within Ukraine to the point where some will swear that no one in the West speaks Russian (most Ukrainians throughout the country can speak Russian as a second language even if they don't do so) and that the nazi "liberation" of Ukraine from the SS was a good thing because communism was so much more worse. Some of the West would love to break off from the East part to become their own nation but can't (for aforementioned reasons about economy).


    As for use of live ammo on protesters... it's not black and white... There were snipers shooting at police lines from buildings before it happened;


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    Police took causalties including one fatality before the order was given to use live rounds. Honestly it's horrible what happened, but you have to ask yourself why protesters with shields would keep advancing to the police position when they were warned to get back constantly... Still, RIP to the dead.


    Quote from KoKo5oVaR

    NSFL


    It is believed (but not proven, an investigation will have to be made) that the Svoboda (right-wing nationalist party with neo-nazi links) idiots destroying the building there fired rounds to shoot out the windows and hit the girl in the process


    Quote from r1ar

    Welcome to Europe!


    Ukrainian games development company "Vostok Games"(project Survaruim) firing people, who not supporting euro-maidan.


    That's bullshit and a good way to fuck yourself and the game's development in one go...

    I'm not pretending to be a "badass Russian", I'm talking about the situation in Ukraine since I know a lot about the area and also know Russians and Ukrainians from various areas.


    How about you contribute to the discussion instead of trolling.


    Seriously.


    ---


    In other news Oleh Tyahnybok (leader of Svboda) is proposing to outlaw the Russian language, for Ukraine to have nuclear weapons and an arms treaty with the US.. probably also wants to cleanse jews from Ukraine too, given his party's ideology... so much for "moderate opposition".

    The reason Turkey hasn't been accepted into the EU is because they have problems with accepting basic human rights - in more than just a few instances.

    Quote from D3ads

    In other news Oleh Tyahnybok (leader of Svboda) is proposing to outlaw the Russian language, for Ukraine to have nuclear weapons and an arms treaty with the US.. probably also wants to cleanse jews from Ukraine too, given his party's ideology... so much for "moderate opposition".

    How many of the protester does he and his party represent?

    Quote from Sentura

    The reason Turkey hasn't been accepted into the EU is because they have problems with accepting basic human rights - in more than just a few instances.


    Also,


    Turks, who wants to be in Europe already in EU today - Germany, England etc.

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