Source 2 Left 4 Dead 2 Prototype Screenshots Leaked

    Quote from generalvivi

    I perform an ancient voodoo ritual each time I need to compile a model.


    It works... most of the time.

    Prefer my solution. Don't model.

    1) That looks great but mostly from an architecture color-platte compositional or lets call it a pure ART standpoint.

    2) could totally be done by a good artist in any other engine right now ( cry unreal unity ) so its not necessarily the tech that's impressive here.

    3) PLEASE be not pre-calculated in any way shape or form iteration speed is the bread, the butter, the plate, the table and the kitchen of a good engine/tool chain! get on those tools valve !!! everything else you do is amazing already ... that is the one chink in your armor!

    Just out of curiosity. I remember an old interview Gabe gave to the 1up guys around the time Lost Coast came out, speaking of tech he said they were implementing, or wanting to implement, image based rendering... which at the time sounded a lot like a trick to give some more legs to an old technology. I've never heard any other engine developer talking about that: is it something completely surpassed or it could be a nice component to have in an engine?

    Quote from Skjalg

    I'm not sure cs:go or dota2 would benefit from looking better at this point, its all about game play and with better graphics comes a higher cost, which always means less players..

    I guess CS:GO wouldn't be in the priorities of the face-lifts... the community is responding well and the game has traction, making an "HD+" version would just break it apart.Aside from that, visual upgrades are always welcomed for me, and if the price is cheap as they have been doing since D1, i'm positive.

    Quote from FMPONE

    Honestly, I think you could build something like that right now in Source no problem, funny enough. Just would require a dedicated artist, same as always.


    I wonder if they will stick to BSP and just add more props and stuff. I mean, is Source the only engine still using BSP? I've just started to learn Source (Yeah, I'm late) but I figured I would be behind now but when Source 2 ships I would be in front sort to speak. Everything else out there is just basically modelling right? (noob question).


    Quote from Marcem

    I think that just tells us where we're at. CryEngine and Unreal are throwing around crazy shaders and particles that are simply impressive due to the tech involved, while Source does a nice looking and playing scene. Mast modern engines feel like you're playing mid 2000s graphics card box art, while Source tries to be more of a Pixar film (not trying to sound like a pretentious asshole here). Focus isn't placed upon the engine's features, but what game will come out of it. What's revolutionary about Source 2 probably won't be in its graphical capabilities, but will be in its ability to do Counter-Strike just as well as it does Half-Life.


    So you think there will still be a place for brush monkeys?


    Quote from Nerve

    Noob question: If these are meshes, not brushes, does that mean everything is gonna have to be modelled and imported? :s


    Didn't see a answer to this one. I'm really curious if brushes are reduced to blocking vis and stuff and nothing more.


    Having said that. What would be a logical time frame in which to expect Source 2? Source is 10 years old. It's definitively time for an upgrade. But then again, what's going on at Valve? What games are they developing?


    I really feel, even though it's awesome, that Steam is taking up too much of their resources.

    I imagine that Source will still have a lot of BSP/displacement stuff for designers to use and blockout stuff with, but I think it will more heavily rely on models/props. Brushwork is so dated, and whilst it is good for designers to use, it does tend to look like shit even when pushed to the limits of what you can get away with, and you can easily just model the same thing in 3ds max and have it look 10x better, and it'd be 10x to do.

    Quote from PogoP

    I imagine that Source will still have a lot of BSP/displacement stuff for designers to use and blockout stuff with, but I think it will more heavily rely on models/props


    I hope so, one of my biggest complaints about Unreal is that it's a huge pain in the ass to do blockouts because the BSP tools are wonky as hell and most 3D packages are pretty bad for making quick, rough blockouts.

    Quote from PogoP

    I imagine that Source will still have a lot of BSP/displacement stuff for designers to use and blockout stuff with, but I think it will more heavily rely on models/props. Brushwork is so dated, and whilst it is good for designers to use, it does tend to look like shit even when pushed to the limits of what you can get away with, and you can easily just model the same thing in 3ds max and have it look 10x better, and it'd be 10x to do.


    So if one was to seriously pursue designing maps there's no escaping modelling? Sounds like one would be better off learning to model instead of learning an editor.

    Quote from PogoP

    I imagine that Source will still have a lot of BSP/displacement stuff for designers to use and blockout stuff with, but I think it will more heavily rely on models/props. Brushwork is so dated, and whilst it is good for designers to use, it does tend to look like shit even when pushed to the limits of what you can get away with, and you can easily just model the same thing in 3ds max and have it look 10x better, and it'd be 10x to do.


    This is exactly where Source is going. A lot of displacements and models are being incorporated into the maps instead of actual brushwork. L4D2 was already a sign what is to come but CSGO kind of took a step back at it. Large open areas on multiplayers have always been a weakness for Source and perhaps this is the reason why CSGO sticks more on the general brushwork instead of going wild with displacement, though they are used a lot more now anyway. But solid brushwork fits into CSGO better in the first place.


    I'm pretty sure 4wayblend for displacements was an experimental por to test it out on Source on wider scale and i think it was a Source2 engine feature at first. Valve has a habit of backporting stuff to test on before going public with something else that uses such tech or idea.

    The key to modeling a level is to use modular construction methods, even a natural landscape in games these days has a collection of "props" that get jammed together to look more organic.


    If done well, with enough practice nobody notices the grid like construction and you only have to make 1/10th of the assets. Not to mention it's easier to optimize a scene and get a consistent look. So, you never really get rid of that "grid 128/64/32/16 feeling, you simply hide it with props designed to do so.


    Yes, learn modeling, and yes learn an editor. One is pretty useless without the other for level design.

    Quote from 2d-chris

    The key to modeling a level is to use modular construction methods, even a natural landscape in games these days has a collection of "props" that get jammed together to look more organic.


    If done well, with enough practice nobody notices the grid like construction and you only have to make 1/10th of the assets. Not to mention it's easier to optimize a scene and get a consistent look. So, you never really get rid of that "grid 128/64/32/16 feeling, you simply hide it with props designed to do so.


    Yes, learn modeling, and yes learn an editor. One is pretty useless without the other for level design.


    If I understand correct, I should learn the editor inside out and pimp the brushwork with props? Eventually I could learn modeling or I'll rely on an artist. Is the assumption that learning Source now, would be an advantage when Source 2 comes out? (regardless of features).

    Quote from SpronyvanJohnson

    If I understand correct, I should learn the editor inside out and pimp the brushwork with props? Eventually I could learn modeling or I'll rely on an artist. Is the assumption that learning Source now, would be an advantage when Source 2 comes out? (regardless of features).


    I don't know what your goal is but i can't model that much and i've made due with existing models & with hammer. I guess i could do more if i had contacts to a modeler that could make props for me to use but i'm not that lucky. So i end up doing stuff for fun for others to play on. Anyway, if you work in a small company or even big one, the more skills you have, the best you can get your work done.

    it all depends what your making and the quality your expecting, for example if you want to make a science fiction style corridors or complex natural shapes (rocks and cliffs) then your best bet is always to model, if your making regular buildings then you can get away with BSP + models for some details.


    If you want to build a scene like this, to any half decent modern standard models are the answer, they will be more efficient too, assuming you want something quite detailed


    [Blocked Image: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2105/2188783931_69bca4600a_o.jpg]


    the point really, is modeling allows you to do just about anything in your mind, imagine trying to make a stadium level from solids? It;s certainly not impossible but modeling has endless advantages.


    My workflow usually is, start with solids to get basic scale, then build some quick tiling models together that are very flexible so I can iterate with my layout, then, hand it over to an artist who understands how your models snap together so they can "remake" them pretty. This method tends to have the least amount of surprises so long as the artist is always in the loop.


    Of course, I understand not everyone has dedicated environment artists to do this stuff, then your only option is to learn more advanced modeling/texturing or stick to enviroments with simple, clean geometry (mirrors edge yo)


    If your using existing art and making your own layout, then you don;t have to worry about any of this lol

    Yeah it's not all that common for designers from HL and Unreal modding, but it's certainly useful (I can't UV/texture for shit, and I just do very low poly work) the key for me is to think more about pipeline than final assets

    I took a 3d art course last year, and it focused 90% on special effects and renders in Blender, and did not touch on anything relevant to importing work into a development environment.

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/452250/gabe-ne…erated-content/


    Quote

    Answering to the latter, Newell said the industry's move towards user-generated content has influenced the development process."The biggest improvements will be in increasing productivity of content creation," he wrote."That focus is driven by the importance we see UGC having going forward. A professional developer at Valve will put up with a lot of pain that won't work if users themselves have to create content."

    Quote

    Valve suspected to have 'soft-launched' Source 2 engine

    New Dota 2 Workshop tools believed to carry signs of next-gen game engine A group of modders and game enthusiasts suspect that Valve has quietly soft-launched Source 2, the long-awaited game engine that could be the building blocks for future games such as Left4Dead 3 and Half-Life 3. In the early hours on Thursday, Valve announced it had released Workshop Tools for Dota 2, allowing modders to create and distribute custom game modes. Notably, the new tools have relatively high system requirements, such a 64-bit version of Windows and a DirectX 11 compatible graphics card. The first Source Engine was the building blocks for key Valve games such as Half-Life 2, Portal 2 and Dota 2 In a message posted on Steam, Valve acknowledged that "this is a developer focused release and currently has high system requirements" but did not suggest this was tied to its Source 2 engine. However, hours after its release, a modder who posts on Reddit as 'RoyAwesome' has gathered evidence to suggest, as is his belief, that Valve has "soft-launched Source 2". At the centre of his theory is that, while Dota 2's assets are the same in the new Workshop update, the code is meaningfully different. "Everything in this package is a new game," he writes. "It's all the Dota assets and code ported over to Source 2. That's why Hammer [a game editor] is different. That's why the console is different. Guys. Valve just soft launched the entire Source 2 engine." That suggestion in itself has triggered a debate on the Reddit thread, where users are cross-examining this claim. It could be the case that Workshop is related to Valve's new tech, but is not outright the engine itself. The thread author points out that "everything that would share a name with Source is named '...2'. That's engine2.dll, vconsole2.exe, vphysics2.dll." Valve has not commented on the matter and was unavailable for comment at the time of going to press. The corporation is known for continually upgrading its technologies, which could mean its Workshop update is not related to Source 2. In March, Valve managing director Gabe Newell said that Source 2 will allow for enhanced user-generated content. "The biggest improvements will be in increasing productivity of content creation," he said at the time. "That focus is driven by the importance we see user-generated content having going forward. A professional developer at Valve will put up with a lot of pain that won't work if users themselves have to create content." Yet it is a matter of debate whether Valve has soft-launched Source 2 as part of that user-focus philosophy. On Reddit, RoyAwesome also claims that: "The Workshop also allows for different dlls to load and render different assets (vmaps are rendered by worldrenderer.dll, etc). This is a completely new architecture from Valves previous system. "This bit alone would indicate a significant amount of engine work has been done to split these bits out of the engine and into their own libraries. That means the engine is also completely plug-and-play with new engine level components if valve creates them for different games. This is pretty freaking huge."

    I'm interested in hearing from the Source guys if there's truth in the story above. Oh and for generalvivi, news source and Reddit source.

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