[CS:GO] de_convention

Woah, that's a pretty convoluted-looking overview. Could be neat but right now it seems like there might be too many paths.

Yeah, seconding what he said, when I look at this I see a Natural Selection-style layout more than I see a CS layout. If you look at maps like Dust, Train, Aztec, etc., they're much simpler layouts built more around the choke point clashes between teams. Think about where your teams are going to meet - in this layout it's hard to see.

Flanking routes are good, but I'd work in fewer of them on a simpler scale and work on the center of the layout - right now the middle of the map is mostly just a route from one spawn to the other rather than a way to get to the bomb points. I'd also look at your CT spawn point - the most direct route to each bomb point involves actually backing up and/or turning around, which is a strange flow. I think paring down some of the outer routes and re-working the center of the map could do you some good.

Don't trust bots for shit.

I find that if you change the setting to let them get the bomb they behave significantly less stupidly. Still bad but it seems that when they always defer the bomb to you they end up all going in one direction.

Also that new layout looks significantly better. Having lots of cross-linking like you said makes the fights confusing and frustrating because enemies are coming from all directions and you're constantly flanked.

my immediate impression is that ct's need another route into both bomb sites, because they basicaly have one route that splits into 2 ways only, at each. that said, the layout looks simple enough to work. see you guys tommorow.

Have you tested the timings? It seems like the Ts will take much longer than the CTs to reach the bombsites and that will put the chokepoints in the middle of the map between the T spawn and the bombsites. Ideally they should be closer to the bombsites.

Take a look at bombsite B on dust2 for example, if both teams rush that bombsite they will meet in the tunnel that connects the bombsite to the dark hall and whoever wins the battle there has easy access to the bombsite, you should aim for something like that.

I'm just looking at the pictures, but what Fmpone says makes sense.

First layout looked interesting to me, I mean it seemed CTs were invited to go middle and then turn left or right depeding on what side Ts chose. But it seemed definitely too convoluted.

Quote from barrakid

Have you tested the timings? [...] Take a look at bombsite B on dust2 for example, if both teams rush that bombsite they will meet in the tunnel that connects the bombsite to the dark hall and whoever wins the battle there has easy access to the bombsite, you should aim for something like that.

Ts always have longer routes to the bombsites, that isn't necessarily an advantage, how the covers are positioned around the site determine if one team can lock down the area or not. Then the distance between bombsites would help determine if it would be of advantage to lock down a bombsite, or instead position the team further (hence meeting the Ts in some chokepoint).

That said, do agree on the timing observation, but I hope the tunnel thing isn't replicated too... I love Dust 2 but I hate the tunnel fights you mention I always detour.

Quote from barrakid

Have you tested the timings? It seems like the Ts will take much longer than the CTs to reach the bombsites and that will put the chokepoints in the middle of the map between the T spawn and the bombsites. Ideally they should be closer to the bombsites.

Take a look at bombsite B on dust2 for example, if both teams rush that bombsite they will meet in the tunnel that connects the bombsite to the dark hall and whoever wins the battle there has easy access to the bombsite, you should aim for something like that.

that being said, site A chokepoint on d2 is halfway between the site and t spawn and is the site that Ts seem to prefer.

That A site chokepoint on D2 (i'm guessing you're talking about long A) is for control of the sniper pit/alley, the actual chokepoint to control the bombsite from that route it's when that path crosses with the ramp that leads to the CT spawn.

Obviously depending on the map timing and location of chokepoints work differently, but it's a CS convention that both teams should arrive at the same time at the secondary bombsite, and that the CTs arrive first at the primary bombsite.

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That's not as bad as it seemed, you could test moving the T spawn just one second closer to the bombsites to push those chokepoints abit back. It seems to me like it would work better that way.

i don't disagree, but your comment was about initial timings, and that second chokepoint at A on d2 isn't really an issue of timing.

given your observation about it, though, it seems like a good way to think about what the timings that are already in the map might alternatively need, rather than changing the timings themselves.

Nice visual improvement.

It might be cool to have new posters (with a funny theme ?) related to the convention.

looking good, visually, I would spend some time selecting textures that give you more contrast in the buildings, thy are mostly gray and boring. You seem to be doing it in shot 3, much better there!

Overall tough it's starting to come together really well, maybe push for some more interesting angles, anyting but 90 degrees everywhere

A trick I always liked to use in source engine was clipping to add trims near walls to break up large sections of flat ground. Anything you can do to break up endless repetition should be worth a go, it usually gets less attention but never forget the ground!!