MapCore CS:GO Playtesting 3.0

So if we can try cs_mass again when there is the next available slot. Should have plenty of time to test to see if it works this week.

de_mocha

I like the theme, and the plausibility of the environment. Mid will also look really nice when fully arted.

Layout wise, I think there are 4 or 5 main routes depending on what way you look at it, along with many sub-routes. This meant that there were a lot of opportunities for players to get separated from each other, and that it was hard to predict exactly where an enemy might be coming from. I think reducing the number of main routes down to three could be a good way to go, and then refine the map from there. Maybe open some of the old routes up again if necessary.

The ladder route out of T spawn was also a bit awkward, since you had to go up steps while running right, and shoot through a window. A whole team going that way is going to find doing that quite difficult, especially if collisions are on. Some of the cover, especially at the exterior site did not feel "honest" enough. Things like scaffolding, and bits of wood allowing players to look over and through.

cs_mass

I enjoyed the map. It feels predictable now, more focused with clear choke points, and three distinct paths - sewers, front of church and right of church. A range of weapons can also be used effectively, depending on what way you go.

- Some of the ct spawns were facing away from the church.
- I think some T spawns are directly inside each other.
- Some of the cover - benches in church and maybe some other bits feels like it might be of an odd height - generally crouch cover is 64 units high, but I think some cover might be a bit lower than that.

Regarding the sewers. I don't know if it would be best to keep or remove them since they do add some nice elements to the map. If they are kept, I think making them a little bit simpler, and quicker to move through could be a good idea, and the exit should be stairs - something similar to cs_siege maybe, rather than a ladder. If they are removed, then another main route would probably need to be added into the church, which might mess things up elsewhere.

de_mocha

I really liked the theme of the level. However there are some definate readability issues with the routes.

cs_mass

I'm going to work on the cover heights and also going to add some stairs out of the sewers.

My two cents on tuesday playtest.

Sorry for WoT :-/

de_mocha

My first playtest on this. I like the theme, most of locations are appealing to the eye.

Problems are the routes: what looks to be a main route for Ts, ends up in what CT would consider a sideroute (eg: water tunnel that allows to shoot in the back rushing CTs or to flank them). Main(?) T routes present obstacles and feel like a sideroute.

Eg: route to B seems blocked, as described in the test, I initially felt that the canal was closed off (bridge going over blocks it visually, you need to climb to get there – which is in antithesis with a rush).

Same for the "roof route", ladder is very clunky.

Summing up: cutting some passages is imperative. Personally i'd put more emphasis on the more characteristic routes, since you have many tr0nic, which for me were: canal mid and main to B.

"Roof route" seems also something memorable, so I'd like to see you finding a way to climb there more easily. But I think you can flip the concept and adapt to your preferred routes.

cs_mass

I understand you want to propose some of the gameplay characteristics of Office, but it's difficult for me to make analogies, maybe because the spaces are much wider or the concept is looser than how I interpret it.

Maybe it's just playstile, but first rounds on the map, on T side, we were rushing a lot, it felt like we were to get to some objective.

CT spawn is too big imo, too many camping spots for Ts that come around; as a CT I felt like random spawning decided for me what route to take, because I was either close to the church entrance or the "sniping alley" (which feels a bit tight as it looks like a main route).

Inside church too dark and feels too much of a bottleneck for CTs, with Ts that can cover-fire from two spots that are impossible to cover for a CT sidestepping in there (left side of church and scaffolding – which can be like aiming at a keyhole for a CT), while having teammates coming down. Feels like Normandy beach-landing

Right side route (CT) doesn't feel like the flanking route of Office ("snowman's courtyard") or a true flanking route because drags you far from the church. Very little cover there also.

Keeping the size and this routes, I would mainly change inside-church, moving the entrance to the center or right nave (so you can have CT spawning closer together), closing off the left nave completely and concentrate on this inside-outside dichotomy.

Not sure about the tunnel, but if that's supposed to be like a catacomb, and if you widen the sniper alley, you could make the tunnel open there and it could play out like Office "open", when a CT comes out from the windows to save the hostage.

~

Hope all this makes sense and can offer something useful.

Updating the game myself.

Yes i have the same puddy, it doesn't work for now

Does cs_agency have a thread? Oh well I'll post here. The map is gorgeous and pretty fun.

I don't like the right-side path on CT side. With the balconies on either end and the 2 tight doorways on CT side. There are two big issues: 1) Ts have a number of safe camp spots and only have to watch 1 entrance. And 2) the connector from mid into that area isn't a viable flank route for CTs, so the Ts don't have to worry about being flanked. The CT balcony is also fairly worthless because it doesn't give a new angle on the camping Ts.

My suggestion is to consider making a CT route through mid that connects to the CT balcony on the right-side path. This would be a relatively risky flank route for CTs, and also function as a "plan B" for CTs that take the right-side path and want to rotate. The way I drew it below also extends the CT balcony to get an angle on campers below.

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/rvXHfahl.jpg]

[Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/IsM3ek3l.jpg]

Sorry I missed this one, looks really good. Hopefully I'll get a chance to play and give feedback at one of the upcoming playtests.

cs_agency

Well, the idea of dr.spud is pretty legit!

What I noticed were the timings, they seemed a little off, the terrorists could play very aggresive by rushing down every route and catching the CTs off-guard, maybe place the CT spawns a little closer and the T spawns a little further away?

de_bagra

I would like to schedule a new playtest for next sunday if its possible, I want to test the recent changes I made. Thanks in advance.

I do love cs_agency as it is, but there is a lingering concern that most of the choke points have very long sight lines, and with the right team of T snipers it could get super hard. Giving the CTs something that's a bit more close quarters might be a good idea, but I also think it plays really well now, and adding a route such as what Dr. Spud is suggesting might just make it a tad too connected.

Game time in a few minutes. Just the one map tonight, de_bagra. I have not played it yet, but it got positive reviews the last time it was on, so should be good!

de_bagra

My first time on the map, really enjoyed it. I started on T-side, I think is the most crucial impact one can have on these maps, and it was easy to find my way. Areas are simple in a good way, with main structure/details that make 'em recognizable.

Map feels very horizontal (wide with shorter range of frontal confrontation) and that felt a bit boring, but is effective.

Seems a tad CT oriented, but that can be because of team balance.

Someone called it out already during the test, but the big flag seems to be distracting, while spectating I noticed one last man standing that got his eye caught by it, apparently.

If that's a landmark to orientate the player, you can go for a minaret if you end up using the Mirage texture set. If it's for prettyness or making the area stick out, you could use hanging flags.

Quote from blackdog

de_bagra

My first time on the map, really enjoyed it. I started on T-side, I think is the most crucial impact one can have on these maps, and it was easy to find my way. Areas are simple in a good way, with main structure/details that make 'em recognizable.

Map feels very horizontal (wide with shorter range of frontal confrontation) and that felt a bit boring, but is effective.

Seems a tad CT oriented, but that can be because of team balance.

Someone called it out already during the test, but the big flag seems to be distracting, while spectating I noticed one last man standing that got his eye caught by it, apparently.

If that's a landmark to orientate the player, you can go for a minaret if you end up using the Mirage texture set. If it's for prettyness or making the area stick out, you could use hanging flags.

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Yeah, I think this is a good base as is. I like what was done with CT spawn actually (changing it from elevated to recessed) since last playtest.

I have some concerns on a couple of points, but honestly I don't think it's possible to make any sort of determination on these issues without extensive playtesting:

(A.) Seems CT sided a bit as said. CT have like 4 excellent sniping spots that I think might give a little bit too much of an edge:

1. A side elevated room.looking down long

2. Down mid from CT->B mid connector

3. Down mid from mid balcony/TV room

4. Down B approach from the box room

I am utterly terrible with the AWP but I was kicking some butt with the AWP on CT side. Three times I got double kills with one shot -- Granted, this could be that we were playing against partially-bot teams, and teams that weren't using flashes and smokes effectively, but still. A good AWPer would clean up in these positions IMO.

(B.) I'm not sure if A-short is a good path to take for T's. It just seems like it's really difficult to make that approach due to the doors, and any time/initiative advantage you might get from a quick attempt at a rush on Short-A is cancelled out by the doors. There aren't even any good potential grenade uses here to help clear the room, unless you're just going to blow down the doors and rush them.

(C.) Even though the map is I feel somewhat CT sided, the major feeling I get is that A site is too easy to stack for CTs and B site is the preferred option for Ts to attack since (as CT) it just takes you a second or two too long to get there.