Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft

    Quote from Skjalg

    Yeah but the nature of card games is that the meta changes and cards become bad or good all depending on the months flavor


    So... is that a bad thing? That's the reason people still play Magic to this day, there's always something new to look forward to and old strategies become obsolete at some point. Imagine if you bought a Magic "license" 10 years ago, would you still expect to get cards for free after all these years just so everyone has the same conditions? How would the company make money in between and keep the dev team going?


    I think that's a bit of that old argument about Formula 1 vs Indyracing. Formula 1 is a very a dynamic sport and the winning teams are always changing, because each team has to research and improve their own cars with their own funds. Indy racing on the other hand is completely stagnated at this point, every team uses teh same chassis and engines from like 20 years ago. Sure the pilots have more equal conditions but at the expense of stagnation.


    The same could probably happen to Hearthstone in the long run had it been a "full price" game with paid expansions or whatever. The free to play model fits this kind of game perfectly and will help its longevity, and let's be honest, the way F2P was implemented in Hearthstone is very fair, it's in no way a pay to win game.

    No, not a bad thing, it just counters the argument that one current deck, which is cheap now, means that the game will always be that way and that it is not pay to win.


    And the way F2P was implemented in hearthstone is pay to win, there is no doubt about that, it is just very "nice" compared to how supercell or EA does it. I get that it would have been harder to do free to play like TF2/Dota2 with cosmetics instead of buying game play (cards) like MTG, but that doesn't mean that I should like it For me this is a black/white area. Either you are a free to play (pay2win) game or you're just a f2p game. There are no grey areas in this definition for me. If you are pay2win but really nice about it (like hearthstone) then you are still pay2win. Just as Diablo 3 was (but that was more punishing if you didn't pay up), League of Legends is (either pay for the new champion or suffer losses the first day it arrives) and looks like Heroes of the Storm is going to be as well (same deal).


    It's really simple. You have a game, and if the payment method (in app purchases) in any way or form changes game play (in your favor), then it is pay to win.


    One scenario that exemplifies this:


    If you have two players, neither has played a single game of Hearthstone. and both players are equally good and has the same set of skills. They are in fact clones of each others.

    One player spends 100$ on the game purchasing cards, the other does not. They play 100 matches 1v1. Which way will the win percentage go? If you guess in the favor of the one who spent 100$ then you agree with my assessment that this game is pay to win.


    Use the same example in TF2 or Dota2 and one player will have more useless hats than the other, which will have no impact in game.


    But don't get me wrong, I don't hate on pay 2 win, hell, even the game I'm working on right now is also pay 2 win to some degree. But at least I recognize the games that are using it.

    The Blizzard employees are defending Blizzard products, don't worry about it


    I do agree that it is pay 2 win, but it is also perfectly possible to pay nothing and still get good. It just takes longer.

    Quote from marks

    All TCGs are P2W to some degree. If you don't like it, don't play it. Nobody bitches about Magic: The Gathering...


    I have never played one, but this appears to be EXACTLY the case imho. It feels like an inherit part of the genre.

    Quote from marks

    All TCGs are P2W to some degree. If you don't like it, don't play it. Nobody bitches about Magic: The Gathering...

    Oh you can be sure I do My brother is addicted to the game and spends hundreds of dollars (or countless hours trading) on it per month just to keep up with the pros.


    And its eventually where Hearthstone is going to end up as well, and I don't like games like that. I like even playing fields

    All the guys at work are playing this now hehe


    My boss suggested an in house tournament and one of the guys quickly chimed in that it wouldn't really be fair because he didn't have enough cards yet so they decided to hold some form of draft tournament.


    I thought that was interesting, considering that this "isn't pay to win", but clearly here he would have to pay to become an equal in our in house tournament.

    So this just happend!

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/07/02/hearthstone-tournament/


    Hearthstone tournament explains why women aren't allowed to play [updated]

    [Blocked Image: http://media.pcgamer.com/files/2014/07/IeSF-610x346.jpg]


    A user on Reddit's Hearthstone community yesterday shared this image—from an announcement pagefor a Hearthstone qualifier taking place during Finland's Assembly Summer 2014. What made "Karuta's" post notable was a single, highlighted sentence: "The participation is open only to Finnish male players."

    That is, to state the obvious, a strange requirement for a Hearthstone tournament; and it makes the qualifier's organisers seem like childish boys in a treehouse, hanging a "no girls allowed" sign on their front door. Only, the qualifier is for for the IeSF World Championship, and it's this global event that has stipulated the all-male line-up.

    "Your information is indeed correct, the tournament is open to Finnish male players only," said Markus "Olodyn" Koskivirta, head admin of the Assembly Summer 2014 Hearthstone IeSF Qualifier, in a statement to PC Gamer. "In accordance with the International e-Sports Federation's (IeSF) tournament regulations, since the main tournament event is open to male players only. This is to avoid possible conflicts (e.g. a female player eliminating a male player during RO8) among other things."

    Koskivirta's argument is that, by allowing women into their qualifier, there's a risk that the winner wouldn't be eligible to enter the IeSF's World Championship final.

    The IeSF, or International e-Sports Federation, is a global organisation based in South Korea that is comprised of e-sports associations from across the world. Their stated aim is to promote e-sports as a "true sport". The IeSF's sixth World Championship will take place this November, in Baku, Azerbaijan.

    Here's the tournament list, from the organisation's Facebook event page:

    • Male Competition: Dota 2, Starcraft 2, Hearthstone, Ultra Street Fighter IV
    • Female Competition: Starcraft 2, Tekken Tag Tournament 2

    It's an absurd division. Seemingly it tells us that Ultra Street Fighter IV is for boys, and Tekken Tag Tournament is for girls; that women aren't meant to play Dota 2 or Hearthstone; and that while both men and women can play Starcraft 2, they damn well better not do it together.

    Of course, that's not what the IeSF are saying. Their reasoning is far more insidious than that. In a reply to a Facebook comment asking why men and women had been divided, the IeSF responded with the following:

    "The decision to divide male and female competitions was made in accordance with international sports authorities, as part of our effort to promote e-Sports as a legitimate sports."

    It's a bizarre statement, attempting to defend a seemingly indefensible decision. E-sports can be recognised as a "legitimate sport" while still staying true to the differences that exist. Hearthstone is not a game that requires any division by gender—to do so is a completely arbitrary decision that smacks of a desperation to be taken seriously.

    As for Assembly Summer 2014, Koskivirta told us that all other tournaments were "open to all genders". "We would also like to point out that the Finnish eSports Federation is currently lobbying for the equal rights of male and female players in the IeSF tournaments," he said. "This is an ongoing process and we of course welcome any support in this matter."

    We have contacted the IeSF for a statement.

    Image source: IeSF.

    Update: The original version of the article stated that Assembly Summer 2014 was organised by the Finnish eSports Federation. This is not the case, and has been corrected.

    Update 2:

    The IeSF have responded to questions about their stance on male-only tournaments on their Facebook page, giving two justifications, quoted below.

    "1 - promoting female players. We know that e-Sports is largely dominated by male players and females players are actually a portion of the overall player base. By hosting a female-only competition, we strive to promote female gaming on a global scale.

    "2 - International standards. IeSF is very close to get e-Sports recognized as a true sports like it should be. Part of that efforts is to comply with the international sports regulations. For example, chess is also divided into male / female leagues."

    To point one, there isn't a Hearthstone competition for women, who are only allowed to enter StarCraft 2 and Tekken Tag Tournament contests, and segregation has historically proven to be a pretty poor basis for the promotion of equality. To point two, we're unsure to what "international sports regulations" the IeSF are adhering to, and why separating men and women would "get e-Sports recognized as a true sports." The Chess example is odd, because while there is a separate competition for women, women can enter the World Chess Championship and compete against men. Just ask Judit Polgár.

    Update 3:
    Another update from the IeSF on Facebook, which suggests they're absorbing the feedback.

    "In the last hours we have received lots of feedback from your regarding the IeSF 6th e-Sports World Championship, particularly regarding the male/female tournament division.

    "We want to thank you for your interest in e-Sports and for sharing your opinions. The e-Sports community opinion is always important to the IeSF.

    "Our top priority is to promote e-Sports in the best ways we can. We believe that listening is important, are we're now collecting your opinions from the social media, and we will update soon.

    Physical based sports I understand the separation. But for gaming? Nah. In the last official NS2 tournament the top American team had a female player and she was one of the best players of the tournament.

    Yeah, it's just really weird that they are doing this. "To get acknowledged as a sport we need two gender divisons!" Well, fuck that. Mediums change and so should the regulations.

    WOHOO! GO BLIZZARD!

    http://venturebeat.com/2014/07/02/e-s…-with-blizzard/

    E-sports league that prohibited women Hearthstone players reverses policy after talking with Blizzard


    After causing a controversy, an international e-sports league is changing its rules to welcome women players.

    The International E-sports Federation (IESF) is ending its policy that prohibited women from competing against men in pro-gaming competitions, according to a post on its website. Earlier today, the Finnish Assembly Summer 2014 e-sports tournament came under fire from critics when people learned that women could not enter a number of its competitions. The Finnish league explained it was making its rules in accordance with the South Korean-based IESF. That governing body originally decided to segregate men and women because it is trying to get e-sports into the Olympics, which does not have any gender-integrated events.

    “The IESF has listened to the gaming community and has carefully considered their opinions,” reads the notice. “Upon hearing these concerns, the IESF convoked an emergency session of the IeSF Board to respond.”


    As a result of that meeting, the IESF tournaments will have an “open for all’ category, which were previously the men-only events for Hearthstone, Dota 2, and Ultra Street Fighter IV. The IESF tournaments also had women-only events for StarCraft 2 and Tekken Tag Tournament 2 — those will remain as they are.

    We reached out to Hearthstone developer Blizzard earlier today, and it made it clear that it was not happy with the IESF’s policy.

    “One of our goals with e-sports is to ensure that there’s a vibrant and also inclusive community around our games,” a Blizzard spokesperson said in a statement provided to GamesBeat. “We do not allow the use of our games in tournaments that do not support this, and are working with our partners to ensure they share the same goal.”

    Blizzard told GamesBeat that it was in touch with the IESF, and that it understood the organization would change its rules. Soon after that, the IESF posted the policy change to its website.


    If you’re wondering why the IESF still has women-only events if it is trying to stamp out gender discrimination, the organization explained that it wants to provide extra opportunities for women.


    “Female gamers make up half the world’s population, but only a small percentage of e-sports competitors are women,” reads IESF’s note. “The IESF’s female-only competitions aim to bring more diversity to competitive play by improving the representation of women at these events. Without efforts to improve representation, e-sports can’t achieve true gender equality.”

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