Tropes vs Women in Video Games

    When the straight white men of MapCore unite to talk about how sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real and isn't worth talking about, especially in the game industry, you're all sending a message to other MapCore community members -- don't post, don't participate, your feelings aren't valid.

    I think that's okay in EOT because that's the special space for it; I avoid EOT and I'm fine with it.

    But if you do it out here, in public, keep in mind that people are going to see this, and you're making someone like me feel less welcome here. What, so I'm going to have to start avoiding the "Gaming Discussion" forums too? I wonder how the women of MapCore feel?

    I'm not saying "censor" your sexist opinions; feel as sexist as you want. But just know that there's a chilling effect on others you're intimidating with that attitude. A consequence. And really, you end up looking tactless.

    Don't worry, no one is going to speak-up and complain because they feel intimidated. They'll just leave.

    Quote from Campaignjunkie

    When the straight white men of MapCore unite to talk about how sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real and isn't worth talking about, especially in the game industry, you're all sending a message to other MapCore community members -- don't post, don't participate, your feelings aren't valid.

    I think that's okay in EOT because that's the special space for it; I avoid EOT and I'm fine with it.

    But if you do it out here, in public, keep in mind that people are going to see this, and you're making someone like me feel less welcome here. What, so I'm going to have to start avoiding the "Gaming Discussion" forums too? I wonder how the women of MapCore feel?

    I'm not saying "censor" your sexist opinions; feel as sexist as you want. But just know that there's a chilling effect on others you're intimidating with that attitude. A consequence. And really, you end up looking tactless.

    Don't worry, no one is going to speak-up and complain because they feel intimidated. They'll just leave.

    I don't think many if any people in this thread are saying sexism isn't a problem. The criticism is more based around the video in the OP not being very good and a waste of lots of money that could have give towards more meaningful and effective causes.

    If you're saying we're not allowed to express any negative opinions about the video because it's about sexism and we're horrible mysogonistic pigs for daring to say as such, I'm not sure how that's any better than the intimidation you allude to.

    It's not my job to convince you that you're possibly intimidating women by saying "this woman talking about representation of women in games has nothing of value to say and she's a crook and she's wrong and she's a hack" -- intellectualism can come off as sexist too.

    So, okay, I'm just going to stop visiting Gaming Discussion. Sorry to bother you.

    I'm not exactly agreeing with your sweeping assessment that the forum is a culturally ignorant echo chamber. The general consensus within the sensible boards seems to be sexism is a genuine issue, both from the perspective of game content and the industry itself. This doesn't mean that all commentary about it is immune to criticism.

    Unless you're basically just talking about 1-2 bad posters, which wouldn't justify your idle threat... you do know we never get new members because this is a decade dead half-life 1 modification community, right?

    Quote from Campaignjunkie

    When the straight white men of MapCore unite to talk about how sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real and isn't worth talking about, especially in the game industry, you're all sending a message to other MapCore community members -- don't post, don't participate, your feelings aren't valid.

    I think that's okay in EOT because that's the special space for it; I avoid EOT and I'm fine with it.

    But if you do it out here, in public, keep in mind that people are going to see this, and you're making someone like me feel less welcome here. What, so I'm going to have to start avoiding the "Gaming Discussion" forums too? I wonder how the women of MapCore feel?

    I'm not saying "censor" your sexist opinions; feel as sexist as you want. But just know that there's a chilling effect on others you're intimidating with that attitude. A consequence. And really, you end up looking tactless.

    Don't worry, no one is going to speak-up and complain because they feel intimidated. They'll just leave.

    No one stands up against feminism because they're scared to stand up against blatant 'you're guilty' attacks like this one. And no one is saying racism/sexism/whateverism doesn't exist. Just because it does exist doesn't mean blow it up in everyone's faces and way out of context like this video does.

    You're basically saying "You are disagreeing with her, therefore, you are sexist" - which is dumb, ignorant, and full of shit.

    And i'm hispanic, not white.

    a bunch of dudes saying a "feminist" video where a woman makes a lot of bad arguments about video games is obviously at risk of being interpreted as a big hate-rage-boner, but in reality its just a dumb video and she makes bad arguments. we're not to blame

    Quote from Campaignjunkie

    -- intellectualism can come off as sexist too.

    personally this is where you lose me, if the goal is to treat women like equals, then women making shoddy arguments deserve to be critiqued the same way I think cliffyb is off his rocker when he equates steam with origin using really shoddy equivocacies. it's really a lose lose topic though, because nobody is disputing sexism exists

    anyways that's enough GURL GAMER talk for me.

    Quote from Kedhrin

    No one stands up against feminism because they're scared to stand up against blatant 'you're guilty' attacks like this one. And no one is saying racism/sexism/whateverism doesn't exist. Just because it does exist doesn't mean blow it up in everyone's faces and way out of context like this video does.

    You're basically saying "You are disagreeing with her, therefore, you are sexist" - which is dumb, ignorant, and full of shit.

    And i'm hispanic, not white.

    Wtf thrik did you know about this! A hispanic on this forum! An outrage, this forum is for white males only! /s

    Pretty much Kedhrin has hit the nail on the head. Her original claim that kicked up a stink was that the female characters in the video game industry are portrayed in a sexist manner. Which is a ridiculous sweeping generalization. Have you even read her dissertation CJ? Her assertions on negative and positive roles of male or female are beyond absurd and in themselves could be construed as sexist.

    Btw as far as her making videos and people paying for it. Who cares? Its her choice and theirs to pay. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to critique her critique.

    Quote from Vilham

    Wtf thrik did you know about this! A hispanic on this forum! An outrage, this forum is for white males only! /s

    Thrik makes exceptions sometimes, e.g. helder, mino, and anselmo (he's the most mexican of them all.)

    Quote from Bunglo

    Thrik makes exceptions sometimes, e.g. helder and mino.

    So am I not a latin/ hispanic anymore? Did you forget about me? That's racist!

    lol

    Quote from Bunglo

    Don't misquote me, anselmo, tryin make me look racist. I specifically stated you were mexican.

    yo no soy mexicano, Я бразилец

    Quote from Campaignjunkie

    When the straight white men of MapCore unite to talk about how sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real and isn't worth talking about, especially in the game industry, you're all sending a message to other MapCore community members -- don't post, don't participate, your feelings aren't valid.

    I think that's okay in EOT because that's the special space for it; I avoid EOT and I'm fine with it.

    But if you do it out here, in public, keep in mind that people are going to see this, and you're making someone like me feel less welcome here. What, so I'm going to have to start avoiding the "Gaming Discussion" forums too? I wonder how the women of MapCore feel?

    I'm not saying "censor" your sexist opinions; feel as sexist as you want. But just know that there's a chilling effect on others you're intimidating with that attitude. A consequence. And really, you end up looking tactless.

    Don't worry, no one is going to speak-up and complain because they feel intimidated. They'll just leave.

    I'm not sure your post is for real because it sounds like straight copypasta from a feminist blog.

    But since this isn't EOT i'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

    First off i think it's presumtuous that "straight white males" arn't supposed to express an opinion on racism, homophobia etc. that doesn't comply 100% withyour own. People are individuals no matter their skin color or sexual orientation and everybody has the freedom to express an opinion. It has no bearing on the validity or invalidity of an opinion.

    The next thing is you put things in peoples mouth or make wild assumptions about everyone. Please point me to "sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real" comments in this thread. I think it's very real which makes it the more dubious that she spents 160k$ on badly researched videos about a pretty trivial subject in the grand scheme of things and still keeps asking for donations mind you. Ther's 1000x more sexism in the comment sections about her stuff then in the video games she talks about. And those arn't even remotely close to the worst abuse that women and homosexuals can experience irl. But hey who gives a shit about setting priorities, right?

    Then what really irks me is how arbitrary the word sexism gets thrown around as a knockout argument, completely warping the meaning of it in the process just to make other peole look bad. Instead of attacking users why not make a constructive post about why you think she's right with all her accusations and assumptions? Then we can discuss the validity of it in an equaly constructive manner.

    to summarize this thread for the people who don't like to read stuff:

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    Well I have to say this surprised me a little. I struggle with my opinions on subjects like this, feminism, gay rights, racism, etc. It's very easy to just fall into the mindset of "well i don't see a problem so they must be making it into a bigger problem than it is" but the truth of the matter is we don't actually know what it's like to be on that side of the fence. I've never been a gay black woman (except for that one time, but that was just for a weekend), so how can I say for sure that I know what it's like, or claim to understand everything about it.

    I watched the whole 'Man Woman Myth' series on youtube, it was really interesting and highlighted a lot of problems with media and cultures aprroach to male/female equality; for example women are focused on very heavily whereas men are maligned and treated as numbers, a good example is when soldiers, firefights, pile, etc die or are injured on the job the classic line is "10 firefighters were killed today", or "9 firefighters and a woman were killed today", and so on. men are virtually 100% of workplace deaths, men have no rights in family courts, men are treated as rapists almost by default. Now this pisses me off because I know many of these things are unfair, but that is from my personal experience. But how can I possibly know what it's like from the other side?

    Same with these "Women in the Video Game Industry" incentives. I find it very easy to get offended that companies are focusing on women, and providing benefits and honouring women in the games industry just for the simple fact that they are women. It's easy for me to feel that it's completely unfair, where is my trophy, where are my benefits? But then I see threads and opinions like this and suddenly it's not such a big deal; there's obviously a problem if people are doing something about it.

    I can sympathise with the fact that most blacks in America (and I'm not going to say African-American, that's become as racist as saying negro or some shit) are impoverished, and therefore fall easily into criminal lifestyles. The prison system seems to exist to lock up unproportional amounts of young black males. It's very easy to say "they deserve it because they are criminals, look at all these news stories of them behaving like animals" but surely the question you have to ask is "why is it like this?".

    the same thing applies with all social issues, it's worthless to denounce someone's views simply because they differ from yours, the responsible thing is to ask "why do they feel like this?". You can pick data, and pick apart their arguments and statistic but why do they feel it is an important issue?

    Anyway, it's never black and white. There's going to be extremists on every side. A problem is a muddle of greys, possibly without a right or a wrong position, and to just pick a position that comforts your world view does nothing to further society or yourself as a person. Humans fight for each other every day, they do incredibly selfless acts. Your mother risked her life to bring you into this world. That guy from Nigeria risked his life moving to some frozen wasteland to give his family a better chance. That policeman puts his life on the line every day to keep his community safe. I think the very least we can do is to question our views every once in a while and try to see things from multiple viewpoints, not just to appease some political or social agenda, but at the least to make yourself a better human being.

    I posted this video because she isn't some "stupid whore" with poorly researched opinions that serve to put down and demonise men; but because it's interesting to see opinions from a different angle. Anita came to DICE and gave a talk to the studio about things we could do as an industry to improve how women perceive themselves in games, how we can get more women to play and enjoy games. believe it or not she enjoys video games, she really cares. her problem is that when we say "oh but it's always been like that" or " but everyone else does it" then we are part of a larger problem. Even if you go for the wallet then creating games that are more open for all ages and genders is going to bring you bigger profits.

    Her kickstarter asked for $6,000 to create a more professional set of videos that could be used in classrooms (for free, mind you), as well as addressing a problem that nobody was actively speaking about. People felt incredibly strongly and gave her more money. She has spent her time travelling to studios and campuses giving lectures and taking questions, gathering research etc.

    I don't remember seeing a single fucking word said about Double Fine getting massively overfunded to create a 2d adventure game. Hey fatso, where's my game, it;s been 6 months you lazy piece of shit. I bet he just took the money and ran! What a con artist!

    Like campaign junkie said, I thought we were better than this, I thought being in the industry we would see exactly the kind of shit that happens on a day to day basis. Marketing and demographics over-rule common sense and morals, and those demographics aren't even accurate. Just because YOU think white males aged 20 make up 90% of the people playing games, and that those kids only like shooting arabs, doesn't make it true.

    Personally I am getting tired of video games, I don't want fucking action shoved down my throat every second of every hour. I want good games that feature stories, arcs, progression. I want to feel that same "wow" I feel when I put down a good book, or finish watching a great movie. Just sitting with the status quo gets us shit like lollipop Chainsaw, and Hitman (recognisable by her small tits lol get it because she has small tits and she must be killed lmao!).

    TL;DR for dux and sentura: fuck you lmao

    Quote from Steppenwolf

    I'm not sure your post is for real because it sounds like straight copypasta from a feminist blog.

    But since this isn't EOT i'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

    First off i think it's presumtuous that "straight white males" arn't supposed to express an opinion on racism, homophobia etc. that doesn't comply 100% withyour own. People are individuals no matter their skin color or sexual orientation and everybody has the freedom to express an opinion. It has no bearing on the validity or invalidity of an opinion.

    The next thing is you put things in peoples mouth or make wild assumptions about everyone. Please point me to "sexism / homophobia / racism isn't real" comments in this thread. I think it's very real which makes it the more dubious that she spents 160k$ on badly researched videos about a pretty trivial subject in the grand scheme of things and still keeps asking for donations mind you. Ther's 1000x more sexism in the comment sections about her stuff then in the video games she talks about. And those arn't even remotely close to the worst abuse that women and homosexuals can experience irl. But hey who gives a shit about setting priorities, right?

    Then what really irks me is how arbitrary the word sexism gets thrown around as a knockout argument, completely warping the meaning of it in the process just to make other peole look bad. Instead of attacking users why not make a constructive post about why you think she's right with all her accusations and assumptions? Then we can discuss the validity of it in an equaly constructive manner.

    Some valid points, but what the fuck can you do with $160,000. I can't even buy a good yacht with that kind of money.

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