MapCore CS:GO Playtesting 2.0

    Some feedback that I wrote while playing. I might include more later:

    de_gwalior

    Pro:

    A lot of vertical action!

    We played a lot of rounds, it was fun.

    Neutral:

    The dimensions seem to be too high... but that makes the map different.

    Con:

    Bomb planting zones. Need to be a little bigger, specially on bomb point A.

    Add more cover on point A. There is just one cover there and it makes difficult for the Terrorist to plant the bomb.

    Some boxes are difficult to jump on. They seem to be slightly higher than they should be.

    Add more water to counterbalance the high amount of vertical areas that can kill you if you fall unexpectedly. With more places to jump, you can break your route's rhythm and surprise your enemy from behind.

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    cs_747~

    Narrow corridors.

    Currently it's not possible to take advantage of the seats. I wish there were some big seats (first class seats?) that would provide more cover for the ones hiding behind them.

    There are a lot of wide and empty areas, which is somewhat expected as that's airport-themed. The emptyness might be fixed on the detailing pass.

    It's a fun map but it seems to be leaning a little towards the CT, hence the score. More playtesting could show if this is an issue

    ------

    de_favela~

    It's a very beautiful map!

    It was fun to play, but I felt the need of another route. The teams kept encountering each other on the same location. Some walls/ gratings could be broken to provide another path (like around that big generator near point A, if I'm not mistaken).

    I like how "hidden" that duct/ passage is from that small slum to the point A. Is it possible to climb up from point A to that passage? I tried without success.

    Yeah - GG's!

    FMPONE - Love the map. Initially seems too small, and a little maze like, but once you get the layout down, is loads of fun. I would like to see the lower section filled with water so that you can jump from up high without losing life (similar to de_aztec) and while it might make the map a little too fast, it is worth a test I feel for next time out. Some areas felt a touch open at first, but this did not seem to be a problem once the layout was learned.

    Kinky - Seemed really solid. A bit tight in the T spawn I felt, and some areas outside the plane felt like they needed more cover, but other than that, very enjoyable stuff!

    Rick D - Great map of course, but a couple of layout things. It feels like there is only one legitimate route from one bomb site to the other (up or down the hill). All other ways seem to take too long. And the small tunnel drop down from the house into the pit bombsite could do with a ladder going upwards, so that if you go that way from the pit, it is not a dead end. Almost forgot - great work on the soundscapes. Really adds to the atmosphere

    Quote from Al Anselmo

    Whaaaat?? How do you know that? ;O

    This is a supposition, but the map, I think, succed in what an official de_ map need.

    My turn :

    de_gwalior

    Pros :

    - vertical fights

    - Small but not too much.

    - easy to flank (maybe too much)

    Cons :

    - hard to find his way at first but it's because of the alpha style of the map.

    - I wanted to jump on a lot of crates (in B side for example) and it looks like we can but we can't.

    - the bomb fell in a hole with plank on a crate in the underpass. We can't take it here ^^

    - Sniper friendly a bit too much, especially in the middle.

    Protip :

    - Make it in Angkor Vat

    cs_747

    Pros :

    - Fun

    - Easy to understand

    Cons :

    - Miss a lot of cover outside

    - Hard to navigate with hostages in the plane.

    - need a second way to climb in the plane I think.

    de_favela

    Pros :

    - Love the visual, gameplay and all.

    - easy to learn.

    Cons :

    - Some visual defect like bad lighting and fliying objet/beam.

    - Maybe a path between middle and B but it works like this as an inferno styled map.

    Didn't get a chance to play 747 really.

    Favela

    Pros:

    -Graphics are astounding, polished, really works well

    -Atmosphere is humongous, it really feel like its a real place at times!

    Cons:

    -I only spawned T side in the time I played, but it was pretty dull TBQH. Not enough personality in that spawn

    -Routes feel pretty matter of fact. Here's one way, here's another, here's another. Some feeling of flanking through the middle T lane would be nice

    -Needs better bombsite guidance with spray decals, it was hard to know where I was in name terms

    -As a new player, I wasn't precisely sure where to expect the upcoming wave. I know this is more of a vague concern, but more red and/or yellow near areas where players can expect a big fight would be welcome

    Thanks guys, just some follows to whats been said so far.

    The narrowness of the plane interior and density of the seats was always something I was expecting controversy about. The 1.6 map was way off scale and i actually want my plane to look good. Delicate balance between play space and artwork. Do you guys think I'm going to have a serious problem with the path widths or will slight collision tweaking be enough? *gulp*

    The areas outside the plane will have cover. Baggage trucks and stuff on the tarmac and general airport props inside, I cant say i expected the terrorists to bring the fight to the CTs outside the plane quite so much :P

    Nav mesh is a bit of a rushed mess atm, sorry about that.. the hostages tend to get stuck. Ill fix it.

    3dnj, what do you mean by "to climb in the plane" ...specifically to climb from the tarmac into the plane? I thought the stairs i added to the entrance tunnel would alleviate that problem

    EDIT: And my thoughts on de_favela

    Love the art style, its got a wonderfully balanced colour palette across every area. I noticed a bunch of minor art improvements that could be made but they're all pretty minor. I can take screenshots of some stuff if you want.

    Other than that i agree with others that another route option between the two bombsites would be good, really enjoyed the layout otherwise. Good job.

    Already gave my thoughts to FMPONE on his map.

    Okay then! Let's see. I'll go through the maps in the order we played them.

    de_gwalior

    The map has got a very interesting concept. The layout is very unorthodox but a lot of fun! My primary concerns are the map's timings; i.e. how long it takes for each team to get to certain positions. I don't remember if it was A or B, but there's one bombsite that is at a higher elevation. This bombsite can be reached far too quickly by T. CT should have time to be able to set up a stronger position before the T can come rushing in. I didn't feel like the timings were fine-tuned in general. Use a stopwatch app or something and time stuff like this, it's very useful! To see who's got the upper hand and so forth.

    In the middle of the map there's a pretty long sightline from CT to T spawn. It's a bit brutal because both teams can reach it so fast and a good AWP:er can lock down the enemy team somewhat during the first 5 seconds of a game. Finally, the flank that goes under the middle of the map (the path that is at the lowest elevation) was a bit underused and should, if possible, be integrated more with the layout in general. Don't know exactly how though.

    cs_747

    I know you've mentioned that you want to stay somewhat true to the look and apperance of a 747 with this map. Don't do that, please. This is a game and the only thing you need to worry about is how players perceive the interior. Nobody's got the blueprint of a 747 in their head so you should only stay true to people's expectations of what they think they'll find in a 747. I strongly recommend you abandon the focus on authenticity and let the gameplay dictate the layout more.

    Now, there's a big question that I need to throw out here before I can give the right kind of feedback. Is this map supposed to follow the design principles of CS:GO and play like an official map? Or is it supposed to be a bit more of a custom fun map? If you are aiming for the former, there's a lot of work that needs to be done. If you are just going to do the latter then, well, one could argue that you are already done. Regardless of your intent, I think a few things need to happen. The corridors on the airplane need to be widened to accomodate some more movement and allow players to walk past eachother (can you imagine how annoying the map will get if player collisions are on?). Then, the seats need to be lowered to improve visibility inside the plane. You want players to be able to get a somewhat better overview of the map whilst in the plan and make fights a bit more dynamic (right now, if a plane seat is between two players they'll only see eachother's partial heads). Next thing, I'd say, is to create a few gaps between the rows of seats so that players can walk in and stand between the rows. This shouldn't necessarily be done between each row, but maybe every 3rd-5th? Just so that players can move a bit more sideways and not just along the corridors. Finally, you should think about how the windows should be handled on the level. I think it's a bit much that each and every windows is open but closeable. I think that you should probably close all of them, and then strategically open some of them (and have them remain open; i.e. static) at certain locations. That way, T can peek out of some of the air plane windows, but CT don't have to worry about watching each and every windows in the entire plane.

    de_favela

    Good and solid, I think there isn't much that needs to be said about it. The only thing I'd think about is the cost of rotating. As a few people have mentioned, it's pretty damn hardcore right now. Like if the bomb goes down on the upper bombsite (with the pits), then rotating through CT-spawn/hill is so fucking dangerous it's insane. There's just a long corridor to the bombsite when you come from that direction which can be dominated by a good T AWP:er. And let's not forget that the peek-window in the house also covers this approach. And rotating through T spawn takes a damn while, even though it's safer. All in all, I don't think this style of layout is bad, in fact I think it's very interesting, but it's just a bit too brutal.

    Oh and I don't want to sound overly critical so...good work all!

    Thanks for the feedback Puddy, I'm going to try my best to answer that without it becoming an argument

    Aside from the fact that its only got about 1/6 the amount of seats as it should (and theyre huge and stupid) the layout for the original cs_747 is actually fairly close to the real deal. My layout is based on the original map and only really deviates from it in the upstairs cabin and first class areas. Im going to use these three pictures to demonstrate...

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/12CFt23.jpg?1]

    This is the proportions of the original 747. Im pretty sure everyone knows a 747 is a lot more cramped than that. With these proportions theres no way anyone can make a good looking map. Also id like to add you still cant walk past someone in any one of these paths. So aside for ease of movement for one player, their width is essentially useless. I also dont necessarily believe it needs this many paths across the width between seats, at all.

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/4wEhAvq.jpg?1]

    Heres a real 747... now that is seriously cramped.

    [Blocked Image: http://i.imgur.com/ZOn1R9H.jpg?1]

    And here's mine. The main aisles are about 50% wider than the real deal. Obviously I'm worried about play space inside this plane. But I don't think it's wildly out as it plays very similar to the original.

    To answer your big question. This map is supposed to play like the original cs_747, which many people hated as quite frankly it spits in the face of all rational level design, but this also why many people (like myself) loved it. It was always supposed to be cramped and hard to navigate, I've just pushed it a little bit, maybe a little too far but i think that can be fixed with small collision alteration on the chairs rather than wholesale changes. I also dont see the problem with jumping onto the chairs to get across the width of the plane...

    Couple of things we can agree on is the chair height and windows. I think when the chair is modeled and isn't so boxy it will solve the visibility issue (as per real 747 image). As for the windows im probably going to scrap the idea of having them movable and just have certain ones open, it just creates too many dangerous sniper positions currently.

    Sorry if this comes across as defensive or blunt (its not meant to be), just trying to stick up for my design decisions. Hopefully others can chime in

    Thanks for input, I will compile them and make adjustments. Really appreciated!

    To address a couple concerns:

    Long flanking routes: intended to force players to commit to defence and as a punishment for "Terrorist-Hunting". If 2 groups of CT push both bomb sites simultaneously they pin T and win.

    Drop-down hole being 1-way: another "force players to commit", they are 100% safe while inside the house, so when they push bombsite they must commit 100%, a trade-off for their security. /edit: I think the problem comes from ambiguity of whether the player can get back up, that needs to be more obvious before you drop down

    Only 3 routes: intended to focus action and force players to use either teamwork, smoke/flash grenades, or pure aimbotting skill. i was hoping it would create a very "instant and predictable action" style of gameplay. Along the lines of de_train where you know 100% that you will see an enemy somewhere, and the kind of gameplay that spawns from not seeing them, pushing, delaying pushes etc.

    Chokepoint from CT spawn to top bombsite: I agree, it's a little too brutal and a skilled player can hold off an entire team - I was hoping it would play like tunnel-into-B in de_dust2, but I may have misjudged how hard it is to retake the site. I will work a secondary route around the generator to bring you out in roughly the same place, but with a different sight-line entering the bombsite; I'd still like to keep the "punishment" for losing the site, and the stress of trying to retake (infernos small bombsite was inspiration, both entry routes are hell to retake) - but it needs balancing.

    Thanks again for the input, much appreciated!

    When is the next test planned?

    Rick_ D - Another issue I found and forgot to mention was the broken car in the middle route. When players hide behind it, you can sometimes see them through the windscreen and side windows, but the collision blocks all bullets, so you can't hit them.

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