Syria in Ruins

Waiting for d3 to update us

[Blocked Image: http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/syria110812/s_s06_RTR3A5KQ.jpg]

that guy got shot seconds later

Yes there's a picture of him with his brains all over the ground with the guys laughing and smiling as they shoot him.

Woo humanity.

some really good image refs in that. i always wonder how a photographer sneaks into a warzone to take pics like that, must be pretty crazy.

either way good luck to syria, hopefully they'll sort their shit out soon so the US won't have to invade them and stuff.

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That's some pretty fucked up stuff. Honestly I think these countries would be better off with their current dictators than with these savage rebels.

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This is just awful.

Quote from e-freak

not sure about that, those dictators just usually hid the stuff better (using secret service doing this kind of stuff in some basements). the problem is that those rebels don't fit our image of Ghandis that want to just remove the system and then have tolerance and peace nor do they fit the image of true representatives of their nation - often devided by ethnicies, confessions, religion, skin colour, education, wealth level - whatever they can come up with - they represent only a certain part, often those who have been surpressed before. Just that instead of learning from their own experience in oppression, it seems they seek payback more than equality, replacing one system with another. instead of seeking a democracy, equality of beliefs, division of power they grasp for power themselves, put the laws of their beliefs in front of secularity and basically just turn the sides on who sits on top.

if anything, we can hope that at some point during those revolutions and unrest the ones who actually want to see equality get the say.

Yep, they are just replacing a violent and oppressive system with an even worse one imo. One example that comes to mind is Gaddafhi. He was demonized by the western media but if you look for facts he wasn't all that bad. Libyan women enjoyed some of the highest degrees of freedom among arab nations and Libya had also one of the highest HDI in Africa (higher than Brazil even lol). I don't think those savages who anally raped Gaddafhi before beating him to death are going to build a better country.

I don't really know what the situation is in Syria but I don't think we should just jump on the bandwagon and hail these rebels as freedom fighters:

Quote from Izuno

This is just awful.

I agree

The problem I see with the whole Rebel movement in Syria is that they are totally not a unified group. They don't have an "agenda" or a "wish list" of how they want things to change. They don't have a plan. They don't have a unified message or a stance, they are not organized, etc... In the start I believe the rebels consisted mainly of Syrian citizens who were against the Assad government. But by now they have been joined by members of Al Qaeda and other militant Islamist groups.

While I really hate what the Assad government is doing to its own people, what I would REALLY hate to see is the Rebel movement winning and then all these Islamist nutjobs getting their hands on the Syrian chemical and bio weapons stockpile. It's pretty obvious that groups such as Al Qaeda only join the battle because they hope to take the government's place when the battle is over and use the fragility of the nation as a means to install a new stronghold for themselves. Look at Sudan, look at Yemen. I think this is also why the U.S. does not want to get involved in actively arming the Rebels, because they know they'd be arming terrorist groups as well.

I fear this war is going to go on for a while, probably a decade. And I don't think it's going to end well for either side. And especially not for civilians trying to live there in peace.

Why can't people just get along for fuck sake?

Okay, so the government is shit and the rebels are shit.

Can't America just step in and kill everyone? peace will blossom!!!

Time for Britian to rule the world again.

What ho, chaps.

Human is making me sad...truly.

I thought I was dreaming or on the wrong forum for a short time upon seeing this thread here...

What you have to understand is that these rebels actively dig themselves into civilian areas and use the populace as human shields. Ground offensives are extremely costly, so the Syrian army has to mostly bombard the area to wipe the rebels out and they end up hitting residents of the buildings being hit or the surrounding area. It isn't ideal and it's pretty revolting but what else are they supposed to do? I mean when you consider NATO operations in Kosovo and Libya cluster bombing civilian areas, there isn't really any difference is there? Also all this fiasco about the army actively attacking the people in large groups is nonsense, if this was the case then the numbers would be far far higher. Take the 1982 Hama massacre for example, where 10-40,000 militia and people were killed in the space of one month. Rebel corpses are stripped of their weapons and accessories and depicted as civilian causalties regularly too, you even have the rebels dressing up in Syrian army uniform and killing civilians in order to further blame the government. The rebels are also causing massive damage to buildings with their own mortars that they've lifted from fallen units/raided bases and with 'balloon bombs'.

Western coverage of the conflict is becoming so one-sided with the rebels that you have to search out world media to get a better idea of what's going on. The BBC is especially bad, using the so called 'Syrian Observatory for Human Rights' as a legitimate source, which is one anti-government activist living in the UK who gets phone calls about what's going on in Syria.. how on Earth is that a relevant and credible source?! This coupled with one reporter speaking with glee as the rebels plant an IED device, something our troops have been killed with numerous times in Afghanistan and Iraq, isn't that being witness to a war crime? It really makes me deplore BBC's Syria coverage not to mention when they did report on the rebels using someone as a suicide bomber unwittingly, it got deleted a few hours later! Ridiculous.

Also refering to the opposition as the "Syrian people"... Syria is a secular state with freedom of religion and the people are very divided, there are both pro and anti-government sunnis as well as shi'ite alawi then Christians, druze, jews and kurds on both sides of the fence. It is impossible to tell if the people are largely against or for Assad's presidency. The three million strong Government rallies speak some volumes though, it has to be said.

As for the rebels, you have The Free Syrian Army who are *supposed* to be secular but there are definately Islamic movements within the different brigades. The actual openly islamist groups and the salafist groups linked to Al-Qaeda carrying out the suicide and car bombings. There are lots of foreigners in all of them, 40% of the rebel causalties in Aleppo have been non-Syrian according to one doctor including Chechens, Pakistanis, Turks etc amongst them.

So yeah, rather than a war of "Good vs Bad" it's "Somewhat Bad Vs Extremely Bad". I say somewhat because no matter how demonised Bashar is portrayed, he studied in the UK, understands and respects our western culture and way of living and not longer than 3 years ago we were singing his praises in his presidency. Once upon a time, the same could be said for Gaddafi...

Also The Syrian army actually firing into Turkey and Israel on purpose is complete crap, provoking a NATO member to initiate article VI of the charter or reignite a war that has been cold since the 70s, either is no gain whatsoever to Syria and would lead to chaos making the current situation seem like a little scuffle in comparison...

Quote from D3ads

So yeah, rather than a war of "Good vs Bad" it's "Somewhat Bad Vs Extremely Bad".

Exactly. I still don't get the point of war, pointless deaths.

I am so pissed off with these fucking politicians, who the Hell do they think they are?!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20340664

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France's foreign minister has said he will discuss supplying arms to the Syrian opposition coalition with European partners.The government plans to push for a relaxation of the EU arms embargo to Syria to enable "defensive arms" to reach opposition fighters.

France is the first Western power to recognise the coalition as the Syrian people's legitimate representative.

Coalition representatives are due to hold meetings in London and Paris.

"Syrian people's legitimate representative" There it is again, what right does France or anyone else outside of Syria have to decide who represents the people? Eventually we'll start arming the rebels and then so will the US and God knows who else.. and there is NO way to make sure that these weapons wont end up in the hands of the extremists and salafists, once they're in the battle grounds.. they can be transported/traded without anyone being able to keep trace of them.

Whilst I wont ever subscribe to mad conspiracy theories about the illuminati and the Rothchilds ruling the world etc it's clear that outside influence in these matters is very much there and many parties have interest in Syria. In fact former NATO general Wesley Clark revealed details of a plan for regime plan in the middle east back in 2001;

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"This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran."

Apparently Syria was supposed to be invaded after Iraq but was abandoned because of the insurgency.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

Sorry if this is too political, but the last few days of the news from the Middle East has had be raged...