The golden age of mapping

I guess I agree with all the nostalgia for HL1... but what constitutes a golden age, exactly? Tremendous output? Consolidated communities? 3 Great People in the same city? I think the amount of maps being made overal is roughly the same, maybe more since anyone can just double-click "Source SDK" and get started.

The scene is more fragmented -- Mapcore, Interlopers, TWHL, Mapping-Area, etc... and some of the big ones kind of floundered, like Snarkpit, Wavelength, VERC... Don't know what's up with HL2world these days...

Anyway, who's to say in 5 years we won't be saying, "remember how great MapCore used to be, with that Door Challenge and stuff?"

Exactly. Also, isn't facepunch and garry's mod scene still pretty huge?

Raise up your hands if you used quark?

for about a week. Cuz RD told me to try it

Golden age, as In the amount of quality, unique maps being made for a single game (cs) - it was also a time when level design was still a bit of a secret and there weren't 2 million tutorials and youtube videos to learn from - that's taking nothing away from the new kids on the block but it's certainly easier to get to the final result these days. (rightfully so )

TF2 spawned _almost_ another golden age of mapping for sure, but most maps are simply remakes of the official ones with the same theme I must of played over 250 amazingly fun and unique CS custom maps - not quick FY maps but full blown artistic masterpieces!

Quote from Skjalg

Raise up your hands if you used quark?

A bit, for Q1. I prefered WorldCraft, VHE later.

Worldcraft 4 lyef!

Quote from Mazy

Worldcraft 4 lyef!

qft!!!!!!

i just saw casino the other day and there is a line at the end read by deniro where he is like:

the town will never be the same anymore today it looks like disneyland in the days the dealers knew who you were what you played what you drank. today its like checking into an airport if a highroller comes in some acne highschool kid is gonna want his social security number.

that exactly how i feel about it back than i knew every map and who made it and what other maps are by that guy which wads it required what the map he currently works on is called/looks like what review scores and awards a map had gotten which editor they prefer. i was so infused with the hole thing... i had sense of belonging that i have never gotten back ... neither in gaming nor in another aspects of life.

so yeah a golden age indeed !

[grumpyoldman]it all ended the day worldcraft was renamed to hammer [grumpyoldman/]

the real reason according to me:

- people graduated to actual game development or indie stuff because we dont life in our parents basement anymore and have to eat to stay alive ----> the talent is gone

-to create a complete custom map like we used to we now have to spend 2 years instead of 2 days ----> the time is not available anymore

- the audience is just gone there are so many sources of entertainment for cheap or free people dont need extra content anymore -----> the audience is saturated

Correct Warby, the quality bar is rised very high. To finish the level you need to model, texture and place all the assets... This takes more effort to make it, typical player is to lazy to make a polished level that will look nice.

I remember the day when I managed to compile and play my first map on a LAN with buddies... Then I made a bunch of shit maps, mostly for TS, good times. Then new tech came along and put me on my ass, I picked up a bit of it, then I dropped it all together because it got too damn complex.

I do miss it, a lot.

Quote from Taylor

Is there a golden age of modding back in the Quake 2 days?I liked it when a mod could just be a cool idea and roll with default assets, rather than a "safe" idea with production values rivalling a commercial game for free.

could not agree more

this thread makes me want to play poke646 again!

but I never did play counter strike. i think of classic maps like redgiant, openfire, 2mesa3, vidars, ahhhh i miss those days....

I think one of the reasons people are not as prolific these days is that the current technology is less limited than it was before (weird i know, let me explain). Back then when we started a project we always had a big and ambitious idea in the back of our heads on how the map should be, but then while developing it we would start cutting some of those ideas out of the project because they weren't possible (or reasonable possible) to accomplish, or toke too much effort. These days you can do pretty much all you want, so after all those years of "good enough, but not as good as i hoped" projects it's hard to get out of the endless cycle of wanting to add more and more detail to a map.Theres also the issue of players wanting to see more. In the "old days" you could just put a wall texture with windows painted on it in a flat surface and players will be happy with it, you could maybe even make a indented rectangle around the window, and maybe clip the edges to make it look more round if you really wanted to make you map stand out. Nowadays you have to actually create a model of that window with all its details to make players happy. You need to add depth to something that was just flat before. Same thing with lights, you usually would add a environmental light and then a couple of spot lights or textured lights in certain areas that the environmental light couldn't reach or wasn't effective enough and call it a day. Now you need to add dynamic lights, HDR, some fog, a 3D skybox, blend all the lights and skies colors, which adds to compile time, which makes you hate your map every time you play test it and realize you forgot to add something, etc, etc.

So to make it shor it is a mixture of the players wanting more, and the technology actually letting you do more.

This is also the reason why it's kind of refreshing to go back and work in older game engines, you get more satisfaction of of doing less, by doing something that is good enough instead of being perfect.

I completely agree that the golden age of mapping (and modding) has long since passed, and that much of it has to do with the advances in video game technology. I released a handful of Quake 2 deathmatch maps back in the 99-03 period, and for me so much of the drive to map was about trying to make Quake 2 express my imagination. When I look at games these days I often feel like there's not much left for the mapper/modder to do. Sure, there are new flavors of the game that can be produced, but so much of the appeal in mapping was in pushing the game into new areas and pioneering new ideas. I'm just not impressed with much of the amateur maps I see these days (no offense to anyone here). Sure, they're visually impressive, but how much of that is thanks to the game developer and how much is thanks to the amateur mapper?

Also, I agree with the sentiments that it was a much simpler process back then, too. Brushes, textures, a few surface properties and a handful of simple entities, and you've got a map.

Anyway, thanks to my sense of nostalgia on this issue that I've been feeling lately, I've dusted off Quake 2 and have gotten back to the work of mapping. My first map in over ten years should be released within the next couple of weeks. Someone's got to carry the torch.

My brother is a writer but he still uses a typewriter. Maybe it's in our jeans.

So, I too long for the "good ol days", but I'll be doing what I can to keep the memories alive.

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Sure, they're visually impressive, but how much of that is thanks to the game developer and how much is thanks to the amateur mapper?

bad designers still make bad maps and good designers still make standout maps . maybe you can't tell the difference, but i can.

Quote from Bugman

My brother is a writer but he still uses a typewriter. Maybe it's in our jeans.

I think you mean genes, but I lol'd hard. Thanks

Quote from cincinnati

bad designers still make bad maps and good designers still make standout maps . maybe you can't tell the difference, but i can.

maybe you can, but that doesn't mean you should be arrogant

Quote from Sentura

maybe you can, but that doesn't mean you should be arrogant

guy comes in and basically says talent is rendered moot by technology, i stand up for talent, and i'm being arrogant?

nice try.